Orb of Imposition Save modifier question

[davidnoal]

"You can designate one creature you have cast a wizard spell upon that has an effect that lasts until the subject succeeds on a saving throw. That creature takes a penalty to its saving throws against that effect equal to your Wisdom modifier."

Does the Wisdom modifier mentioned above include the one-half your level? Or it include just the value of the Wisdom modifier from the table on PHB pg 17 ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Majushi]

If your quote is accurate, and I can't check that it is right now, just your Wis Mod.

 

[Larrin]

Definitely just the wisdom bonus given on page 17, other wise by level 20 you'd have a -10 minimum, which is a 'never save' situation for most creatures...-15 by level 30 which would forever lock down even solos. Not the way it works. the only things that by default get the half level bonus are defenses, attacks, and skill/ability checks. Otherthings (such as damage, forced movement, penalties/bonuses bases on abilities) in general don't. Things get horribly wonky if you do.

Compare it to wand of accuracy and staff of defense: should the wizard really get a +10+dex to his attack at level 20? he'll hit ANYTHING. +10+con to defense? Nothing will get through that.

 

[Gort]

Just to hijack the thread - anyone else think orb of imposition gets a bit broken by epic levels? It's fairly simple to get a +6 wisdom bonus by level 30, and +9 or more is possible if you really want to go for it.

Needing a 1 to save on spells like sleep is far too powerful in my opinion, and will completely destroy encounters. This is completely out of proportion compared to Wand of Accuracy which merely (nearly) guarantees a hit, or Staff of Defense which merely (nearly) guarantees a miss, if you try and break it in the same manner.

 

[Kaelkatar]

Causing 1 creatures to perma-sleep isn't that bad. The orb effects 1 creatures, not everything hit by the spell.

 

[Larrin]

The Orb is definitely the one that gets the most mileage out of the three, since its effect can last multiple rounds while the others are a one time boost. Wand and staff give you a boost you may not have even needed..you could have hit or been missed anyway...but if you make a beast fail 6 saving throws in a row because it needs to roll a 19....thats tilting fortune pretty hard in your favor.

 

[brehobit]

The Orb is definitely the one that gets the most mileage out of the three, since its effect can last multiple rounds while the others are a one time boost. Wand and staff give you a boost you may not have even needed..you could have hit or been missed anyway...but if you make a beast fail 6 saving throws in a row because it needs to roll a 19....thats tilting fortune pretty hard in your favor.

Staff: constant +1 AC. Easily the best until you get the orb bonus to at least 5. Even then, I think it's too much in one shot and not enough any other time...

 

[darkadelphia]

I expect Orb will get nerfed at some point. It does seem screwed up at high levels, especially against solos (yes, they get the +5 bonus to saves, but it still gets a million times the mileage of the other two). Personally, I think changing the orb to affect only one throw is an easy and fair fix--but I'm not going to try to pull that one on my wizard player until WotC backs me up

 

[Kaelkatar]

I'd suggest capping it, and the other 2 implement masteries at a maximum 5 bonus.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Idea for the Orb - Enemies have -1 save on your Implement powers. As an encounter power, when an enemy rolls a saving throw versus one of your powers, you may add your Wis modifier as a penalty to their save. You may do this after you see the enemy's roll.