Origins of the "New" Races

[Rel]

Eladrin's ability to Fey Step doesn't bother me conceptually. Dimension Door and Tree Step (I think that's what it's called) have been around for a long time. I think it has some implications for what their part of the world looks like. In fact suddenly all those faerie princess style castles with lots of tall spires make more sense if they don't have to take the staircase all the way back down to get to the adjacent tower. Most of the other considerations for dealing with the effects of Fey Step have been mentioned.

It strikes me that Wizards are now much harder to imprison than Eladrin. They can sit in their cell and blast through the door (or even wall) with Magic Missle all day long if they like.

 

[Mallus]

Better. Not ideal, but still better.

Progress!

It's a major magical ability that eladrin have to a minor degree.

In practical terms it works out to a minor ability.

What bothers me is that entire communities of eladrin have this ability.

That's perfectly fair.

It would be really nice if there were communities of high elves who did NOT teleport, but sadly, the 4e designers decided they needed no such creature.

The new edition does have BAMF-negative elves. It just includes a race of BAMF-positive elves as a bonus.

Maybe it's "better," but to me, it's a a serious stutter if I want to run a game with a similar feel to the Dragonlance trilogy or the Penhaligan trilogy or LOTR or even Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword.

If you want to run any of those campaigns you'll have to tweak and/or remove some core game elements.

If I want the game to have the barest resemblances to a traditional swords-and-sorcery or chivalric romance game, Eladrin would have to be pretty rare, which is exactly the opposite of what I'm looking for in a core race.

That's a more understandable position. Eladrin aren't particularly problematic, they just impart a flavor you don't like. Got it. I'm a little slow before my 1st cup of coffee.

 

[Hellzon]

The new edition does have BAMF-negative elves. It just includes a race of BAMF-positive elves as a bonus.

To be fair, he said high elves. But I don't want one million elf subraces either, so I'll take the wood elves, high elves and dark elves and deal with it.

/Devil's Advocate Hellzon

 

[Lorthanoth]

Ridcully - I am so stealing that entire Eladrin justice system.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Ridcully - I am so stealing that entire Eladrin justice system.

Glad you liked it.

But stealing is wrong and illegal! Don't steal my ideas, just use them!

But I am afraid I can't really take credit for it. I am pretty certain one of the Eladrin-related articles from Dragon mentioned exile as a punishment.

I don't know how Non-Eladrin deal with Eladrin criminals, but Eladrin certainly don't put them in prisons. Non-Eladrin might simply kill them if they find outlawing or exile to be insufficient. (Though hacking of a hand is,it seems to be, a very good punishment, too. You can do that in less then 5 minutes. )

 

[Rel]

(Though hacking of a hand is,it seems to be, a very good punishment, too. You can do that in less then 5 minutes. )

Don't be silly. One can't hack off someone's hand in D&D!

 

[Intense_Interest]

While such a thing is conceivable in a fantasy setting, it's a far cry from the "grey elves" I'm used to. It would be really nice if there were communities of high elves who did NOT teleport, but sadly, the 4e designers decided they needed no such creature. As a result, Eladrin communities are simply different from those of other races presented in previous editions. Maybe it's "better," but to me, it's a a serious stutter if I want to run a game with a similar feel to the Dragonlance trilogy or the Penhaligan trilogy or LOTR or even Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword. If I want the game to have the barest resemblances to a traditional swords-and-sorcery or chivalric romance game, Eladrin would have to be pretty rare, which is exactly the opposite of what I'm looking for in a core race.

Some people don't like magic trains, or robots, or traditional castles, or Lawful Good paladins, or guns, or whatever. Me, I don't like an entire race of high elves who *BAMF*. It messes with my high elves. It misses with communities that have a high elf minority. It creates situations I don't want to deal with - "We captured ten Eladrin warriors. Good thing we happen to have ten iron maidens with us."

To correct you, I assumed that Iron Maidens would be used in stable prison/dungeon environments and fully-enclosed head cages would be used in ad hoc situations such as those you describe, because Head Cages are easier to store/carry or even assemble as needed.

That said, I agree that there is an issue regarding the flavor, because that is to be determined by person's taste. Thankfully, if you have sole narrative control of the game-world, you are allowed to adjust the scarcity of player races or abilities so as to fit that taste. What this allowance does, however, is show that the ability of Eladrin to teleport is not useful as a criticism of the 4th Edition system as a whole.

 

[Hussar]

Or that someone overestimates the width of a typical navigable river. Person B is undoubtedly trying to be helpful, but I don't think the "easy solutions" presented really address Person A's concerns. At all. Person A was probably familiar with the short range of fey step, if not from the teasers that have been coming out for months, than from the fact it was mentioned in this very thread.

I feel pretty affronted by the implications that I am not familiar with fey step, that I am being "contrary," or that I am somehow failing to understand how simple this all is. Fey step creates some huge world building issues, and calling that "flavor" is facile and reductionistic.

I do not like being condescended to. Whether or not that was your intention, that is how I perceive the tone of your posts. I would appreciate it if you did not continue in this line of criticism and kept to the topic at hand.

Tone notwithstanding, the "issues" you brought forward have all been addressed. Do you have any other issues in mind?

Again, it's 25 feet. A river that is less than 25 feet across isn't much of a river. It's a stream. My living room in my tiny Japanese apartment is close to 25 feet long. You're talking EIGHT steps. Eight paces. That's it. Every 5 minutes I can teleport to a spot I can SEE that is no more than eight steps away.

And this is massively world changing? How?

 

[pawsplay]

Tone notwithstanding, the "issues" you brought forward have all been addressed. Do you have any other issues in mind?

I have the same issues in mind. If you don't have anything further to comment on my reservations, I think it's a dead horse.

Again, it's 25 feet. A river that is less than 25 feet across isn't much of a river. It's a stream.

Well, some of the crossing points on the Mississippi are 25 feet wide.

 

[Campbell]

One thing that baffles me is the idea that a race's presence in the Player's Handbook translates into the widespread presence of that race within the game's setting. A race's presence in the Player's Handbook only speaks to the suitability of the race for player characters. The new races found in the Player's Handbook are not necessarily among the most numerous of races in the world. They are, however, disproportionately represented in the adventuring community.

According to the 4e Player's Handbook

• The Dragonborn population consists of a few rootless clans. They tend to devote themselves to a life of struggle.
• Eladrin are rarely seen outside of the Feywild. Those that cross over tend to have a higher level of attachment to the mortal world.
• Tieflings are the remnants of an ancient civilization well past its prime. The majority of the remaining Tieflings live in the roughest parts of human civilization where danger awaits at every corner.