Origins - Swordmage is full of win

[Plane Sailing]

Funny what a difference information makes.

The Swordmage's marking ability rocks. Not only do you mark your opponent, but you can prevent your opponent from damaging other people. This was important in the scenarios we played, because I'd mark an opponent, and he would run off somewhere...but become totally impotent because I could prevent him from damaging other people.

This made it sound like it was completely blocking an attack, which was whacked IMO.

If it makes a difference, I could only prevent 9 points of damage with the 5th level Swordmage's marking ability. I'm not sure how they got their 9 number, but I'd guess that it's tied into an ability score.

But with a bit more information (i.e. it only blocks a certain amount of damage) it doesn't sound so unreasonable mechanically.

 

[Obryn]

But with a bit more information (i.e. it only blocks a certain amount of damage) it doesn't sound so unreasonable mechanically.

Also of note is that it's an immediate reaction. That makes a huge difference, especially when your Wizard is in danger of being mobbed by multiple creatures at once.

Additionally, for all we know, Swordmages have a large number of potential Immediate actions which might trump this one in effectiveness.

-O

 

[Kraydak]

Funny what a difference information makes.

This made it sound like it was completely blocking an attack, which was whacked IMO.

But with a bit more information (i.e. it only blocks a certain amount of damage) it doesn't sound so unreasonable mechanically.

That all depends on the scaling. At lvl 5, 9 points blocked IS about a full, average damage hit (see DMG p185). We don't know how the number "9" is arrived at. If it is 5+con, it will fall behind (14-15 points blocked vs 23.5 average hit), but if it is 3+(3*tier)+int it will stay a full hit (21-22 points blocked). If it it lvl+con, it will block everything short of a boosted crit at high levels.

 

[Rechan]

Additionally, for all we know, Swordmages have a large number of potential Immediate actions which might trump this one in effectiveness.

-O

This is a point I also wanted to make. One of the SM's daily abilities is 'as an immediate interrupt, zap the bugger that attacked you for some nice damage'.

Getting only one immediate action a round will certainly put the pressure if the party is mobbed, or facing a solo monster.

 

[Kraydak]

This is a point I also wanted to make. One of the SM's daily abilities is 'as an immediate interrupt, zap the bugger that attacked you for some nice damage'.

Getting only one immediate action a round will certainly put the pressure if the party is mobbed, or facing a solo monster.

Of course, if the bugger that attacked you is the one you marked... there is no real "action cost".

 

[Jhaelen]

Funny what a difference information makes.

Yup. In the other thread about the Swordmage it was mentioned they get to add their Int bonus to their AC (as long as they have one hand free).

Unless there's some restriction nobody mentioned yet this sounds overpowered to me. I definitely hope the class's designer was informed that magical shields no longer provide additional bonuses to AC. Because, if that was still the case, it would be balanced:

At Level 30 a Swordmage with an Int score of 28 gets to add +9 to his AC which would be slightly better than a +6 shield.

But there are no +X shields. A shield provides a maximum of +2 to AC. With a +7 advantage over other defender classes, why would anyone play a fighter or paladin?

... So, does anyone have additional information about this that would make the ability balanced?

 

[Rechan]

... So, does anyone have additional information about this that would make the ability balanced?

From the other thread:

The dwarf swordmage had AC 20 at 3rd level with a 16 Int, wearing +1 surge leather armor (daily: gain +2 power bonus to all attack rolls and defenses, this bonus is reduced by 1 at the start of each of your turns). He also had a +1 defending longsword (when you take the total defense or second wind action, add the enhancement bonus of this weapon as an item bonus to all of your defenses until the start of your next turn). With a combination of his base AC and item abilities, he could get his AC quite high.

So, leather is +2, enhancement bonus is +1, Int mod is +3, swordmage warding is +3, level mod is +1, for a total of +10. 10+10=20.

Take from that what you will.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

... So, does anyone have additional information about this that would make the ability balanced?

I get the impression that the swordmage is only proficient in light armour, and to use this ability they only can use 1-handed weapons. I have not made the comparision using the best possible light armour and this ability, vs. other classes using the best possible heavy armour such as +6 Godforged Plate with a shield.

Taking the hypothetical 30th level Swordmage with 28 int into account.
10
+15 AC from level
+5 Elderhide armour
+6 Enhancement Bonus
+9 Intelligence bonus to AC
+9 Swordmage warding int bonus
+1 armour specilization (hide)

=55 AC

The hypothetical 30th level Paladin into account.
10
+15 AC from level
+14 Godplate armour
+6 Enhancement Bonus
+2 Heavy Shield
+1 Shield specialization
+1 armour specilization (plate)

=49 AC

 

[Toben the Many]

I've not always had the best things to say about 4E (but have tried not to be totally derisive either), but I must throw in a vote of goodness for the swordmage. There was a swordmage in the party in the delve events and...

1) The player running him looked to be having a good time.
2) His powers seemed cool, flavorful, and distinct from the other party members.
and
3) He was by no means overpowering; I think my halfling warlock was overall more powerful.

Go swordmage!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, were you at my table? The halfing warlock was the MVP at our table, too. He totally owned the end bad guy almost by himself.

 

[TheWinslow]

I played the Swordmage Pregen at the delve and it was far from impressive, particularly when fighting alongside the Fighter, whose mark was much better, hit more often, and dealt more damage.

The character did have a 1st level AoE at-will (I think...it's been about a week). His AC was as high as the Fighter.

I can't really get into specifics, because I can't remember most of nitty grity like who had the most HP, best defenses, etc.

I don't think this is a case of power creep, though. We don't know the class's HP progression or Armor Proficiencies and saw only a handful of powers (none of which were terribly impressive, in my opinion).

I'd reserve judgment for now.