Overpowered characters - how to deal with them?

[Banshee16]

I've been running a 3E game of Planescape that started in 2nd. Ed. and has been running for about 7-8 years, and we switched it to 3E a few years ago.

Recently a new player joined the group, and created a monk with the vow of poverty. I'd used some material from BoED before but never that particular feat. This is also the first time anyone in my group has run a monk.

I'm not sure what others find, but I find the monk class overpowered to start with.....with the save bonuses he gets, and flurry of blows and other things, he seems the most powerful character in the party, even though he's not highest level. The Vow of Poverty has resulted in a lvl 13 character with 33 AC (37 against some things like giants) who seems to do incredible damage, but more importantly, never seems to fail a saving throw, has spell resistance, and a bunch of immunities.

I've been noticing my game drifting slightly to the point where the PCs are running into challenges that are lethal to every other character in the party except for the monk.

Things have reached a point where a good friend who's been in the game for seven years just announced he is quitting the game. I suspect it's partly because of this other character.

The frustrating thing is that I like both players. I just don't like the character. I could be hard-nosed about it, and just take away the abilities, but I need to find a way to do it without angering anyone.

At this point, unfortunately, the player who's leaving has said he's made his choice and I'm not sure if I can get him to change his mind, because he's going to a group run by another of his friends that has been trying to get him to join them for a while now.

Banshee

 

[Aaron L]

What are the monks stats? Does the group have standard amounts of magic item? Cuz if not, then Vow of Poverty is overpowered for that game. But seriously, how does the monk have the highest AC? How is he hitting more often/doing more damage than fighters and such? Now the saves I can see, but thats supposed to be one of the monks strong areas.

And AC 33 at 13th level is... well, not that far out of the ordinary, from my experience.

 

[Crothian]

make sure he is living up to the standards of an exalted character, its not easy to do

 

[Dougal DeKree]

Your post reads like you and the other players lost part of your fun when that "poor monk" joined. The first thing I would check would be if the player would push the cause of the vow of poverty in character or only use it as an advantage. If the latter is the case, talk about it to the player in question that you would rather have one play a character with a vow as means of "play" not "mechanic".

As for the rules: have a close look at pg. 29 lower right. If he chose a very late level to switch to the vow, he does get fewer exalted feats. Apart from that look at pg. 48: If he carries anything magical, he will loose all benefits. Many vile opponenets may use that to their advantage, using greed as their ally. "Here, a token that will save you in your darkest hour!" "Thanks!" *poof, powers gone* - and the vow is forfeit. *insert evil cackle*

 

[Voadam]

High level monks and druids get very powerful with VoP.

I've got a druid Master of many forms Warshaper one in my game.

Good luck.

 

[lukelightning]

Really the best thing to do is say "hey, your character is too powerful, we need to do something."

I found the Vow of Poverty to be one of the worst ideas ever. We had a VoP Monk join the party (they seem to sprout up everywhere). It put a lot of pressure on the rest of the party...we had to heal him (because he can't carry potions, etc), and generally act as his mules. Then there is all the metagaming involved: the DM has to reduce all the treasure found, otherwise the other folks get too much gold; that just made it seem unfair to the rest of us that we were getting less gold because Poverty Dude can't hold a coin without getting punished by God.

We solved this problem by being not-too-concerned about Poverty Dude when he got surrounded by orcs and then laid bleeding on the ground. "Sucks that you can't carry a potion of healing, doesn't it?"

 

[gamecat]

lol!

I'm now calling any vow of poverty build "Poverty Dude."

"Oh, me? I'm a 14th level Poverty Dude."

 

[Dougal DeKree]

the DM has to reduce all the treasure found, otherwise the other folks get too much gold; that just made it seem unfair to the rest of us that we were getting less gold because Poverty Dude can't hold a coin without getting punished by God.

That explicitly goes against the advice given by the BOED: it states that the "poor char" gets the standard share but except for keeping it he will spen it to some organization.

The other chars shouldn't be affected by one player yearning for poverty...

 

[Banshee16]

Your post reads like you and the other players lost part of your fun when that "poor monk" joined. The first thing I would check would be if the player would push the cause of the vow of poverty in character or only use it as an advantage. If the latter is the case, talk about it to the player in question that you would rather have one play a character with a vow as means of "play" not "mechanic".

As for the rules: have a close look at pg. 29 lower right. If he chose a very late level to switch to the vow, he does get fewer exalted feats. Apart from that look at pg. 48: If he carries anything magical, he will loose all benefits. Many vile opponenets may use that to their advantage, using greed as their ally. "Here, a token that will save you in your darkest hour!" "Thanks!" *poof, powers gone* - and the vow is forfeit. *insert evil cackle*

Losing some of the fun is about it. I know that the campaign was starting to wear on me in any case.....it's been a marathon 7-8 years now, running through most of the core Planescape material, plenty of home grown stuff, the Great Modron March, and now we're two adventures away from finishing Dead Gods. But though it's been awesome I'm just getting tired of it, and need a change, if that makes any sense.

The monk hasn't been helping, as the dynamics of the group arrived when he joined. The rest of the characters watch as their characters struggle and work together to survive, and he turns around and acts as the main combatant, and just seems to decimate everything. And I'm talking like taking 1-2 rounds to take out higher level humanoid opponents. It doesn't happen all the time....he has trouble with displacer beasts for instance....but in the last game he was caught against a drow cleric of higher level, and the drow used something like 4 harm spells, slay living, destruction, and cause critical wounds against him, and he either passed his saves, or SR rolls failed to penetrate, etc. And the opponent had an attack bonus of something like +8, so the only way he was going to hit was on a roll of 20.

That same opponent, against other party members, likely would have killed one of the characters. But the monk fought him to a draw. Some of the others in the group feel like secondary characters in comparison with him.....ie. they're there to heal him up if he does get beaten down, or save him if he gets in over his head.

Even the druid, who is the highest level character....he's effective, but he can't do everything, and he has weaknesses. The monk just seems to roll over everything....drow necromancers? Check. High-level giant fighters. Check. Part of this is smart playing....judicious uses of trips, Improved Trip feat, etc.

There may be less magic items than normal amongst the rest of the party. I'd have to check. This is a group that doesn't tend to loot the dead, since they're not metagaming so much. They tend to focus on a goal...ie. finding an NPC they need to locate....and while going through a location, they won't search bodies, and don't search every room, but focus on finding the guy, etc.

The monk has nothing.....he's got a straw hat, a linen robe, and that's it. I think his starting Dex was 18, and his Wis 14, and he's up to 22 and 18 respectively. Something like that. May not be the exact numbers though...I can't remember. I remember that I did run through the numbers, and they added up correctly.

The party consists of:

Human druid 14
Human ranger/cleric/windwalker 10
Half-celestial ranger/sorcrerer/sensate 11
Halfling fighter 8 (he's lost several levels permanently to level drain)
Elf wizard 11
Human bard 11
Dwarf monk 13

The spread of levels is a little uneven....due to raise dead/reincarnation penalties etc. The elf and halfling in particular have been reincarnated I think 3 times each.

The player of the monk is a good player and a nice guy...it's just the character I think that is getting a little frustrating.

Banshee

 

[Dougal DeKree]

Part of this is smart playing....judicious uses of trips, Improved Trip feat, etc.

...

The spread of levels is a little uneven....due to raise dead/reincarnation penalties etc. The elf and halfling in particular have been reincarnated I think 3 times each.

The player of the monk is a good player and a nice guy...it's just the character I think that is getting a little frustrating.

Banshee

Hi Banshee!
For one thing I, personally, am happy to hear that the player in question really uses all mean tricks he has for eploiting the strengths of a monk as stripping and such. I have seen too many monks played like "I charge and...don't hit? Crappy Char, I roll up a new one!"
So I donÄt see the player or the char as the problem (although he might be too powerful compared to the group of other player that are oriented towards their goals and not improvement/wealth (which is positively remarkable!). Maybe you should do something to bring the Characters to an even level, to reduce the feelign of uselessness for the other players. I mean, playing an 8th lvl Halfling fighter with a 13th lvl monk is depressing for sure. Premanent loss or no, find some way to get them to the same powerlevel - this will make it easier for you _and_ more fun for your players.

Dougal