Overpowered/Underpowered Spells?

[Thanee]

Silence: Yep, quite good for an auto-spellcaster-shut-off. How many silent spells prepares a caster? Two? Three? Perhaps a silent dispel? Or a silent teleport?

What do you mean... prepare...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I am curious as to why people don't put time stop on here.

Yeah, time stop is pretty nasty, altho I'm not sure it can (or should be able to) be maximized (since the d4 is duration), but I guess this has been clarified somewhere by now.

The forcecage + dimensional lock would have killed the cleric in your example without the time stop already (usually clerics do have means to survive this and get out of the cage), so I don't see what it added to the mix there, except being overkill, really.

Also quickened rods shouldn't work like I suppose you use them (and I'm unsure, whether they are meant to do), read my post in the quickened spontaneous spells thread (page 2) for a more detailed explanation, altho that doesn't change the validity of your example, it'd still be possible to quicken one spell and ready a counterspell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[dcollins]

"If this spell is used in intelligent and min/maxxy fashion, will it change the way every encounter must be run, or force the GM to change the campaign world?"...

Alter Self/Polymorph/Shape Change
Gate
Mord's Disjunction
Scry/Teleport
Silence

Good points. I'll briefly point out that in the past, 3 out of 5 of these spells had built-in limitations that could possibly kill the user -- but all such side-effects were taken out in 3rd Edition (to make a "softer" game for players), thereby breaking these spells.

In 1st and 2nd Edition:
- Polymorph required a Con check (System Shock) or die.
- Gate brought a free-willed entity who might leave or attack the caster.
- Teleport had a failure option that was instant-death.

In my game using some variant on 1st Ed. rules for these spells makes them not a problem.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Good points. I'll briefly point out that in the past, 3 out of 5 of these spells had built-in limitations that could possibly kill the user -- but all such side-effects were taken out in 3rd Edition (to make a "softer" game for players), thereby breaking these spells.

In 1st and 2nd Edition:
- Polymorph required a Con check (System Shock) or die.
- Gate brought a free-willed entity who might leave or attack the caster.
- Teleport had a failure option that was instant-death.

In my game using some variant on 1st Ed. rules for these spells makes them not a problem.

Aye, and that is one reason why I liked AD&D. Teleport was used only in dangerous situations, Polymorph was a better attack spell than buffing some party members, and Gate was rarely used at all.

Hmm, perhaps I should swap through my old AD&D PHB to get some ideas on how to balance some spells listed in this thread.

 

[notjer]

a spell my DM used, very weird:

a corrupt spell - I only know that if I succed my check(the dc was 20) I maded a succesful save on 26, and I took 1d6 streng temp. damage and 1d6 con temp. damge. thats a kind of overpowered and wierd :S

 

[Li Shenron]

Good points. I'll briefly point out that in the past, 3 out of 5 of these spells had built-in limitations that could possibly kill the user -- but all such side-effects were taken out in 3rd Edition (to make a "softer" game for players), thereby breaking these spells.

In 1st and 2nd Edition:
- Polymorph required a Con check (System Shock) or die.
- Gate brought a free-willed entity who might leave or attack the caster.
- Teleport had a failure option that was instant-death.

In my game using some variant on 1st Ed. rules for these spells makes them not a problem.

Well, I can kindly only but strongly disagree

A death chance does not make any spell balanced. It just either (1) scares a player who will NEVER use the spell or (2) don't scare a player who will keep on using the spell the same way, or at best less often, until he dies, at which point he'll smile and make another char, perhaps with the same spell or otherwise never again.

Drawbacks could be fine and interesting, but not death as drawback.

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

I'd like to put forth an underpowered spell.

Wish.

The effects it grants are in no way worth 5,000 EXP each, and asking for more makes DMsdo terrible things to their players. That's not in the rules, but face it, all DMs do that, hell, I know of DMs who don't allow the stated effects of wish to work. (I don't play with DMs of that mentality though.)

 

[Dthamilaye]

True strike is kinda.... ergh.

Almost everyone in my campaign, especially fighter types, have taken 1 level of specialist wizard (Diviner) to get access to 1-3 + true strikes /day. And, of course, everyone has bought the lesser metamagic thingy (quicken), so they can use it whenever they like without problems. Yes, they lose 1 BAB, but gain alot of nice things with 1 level of Wizard.

Many of the spells mentioned in this thread have been and are problematic in my campagin too. M.Disjunction (I don't allow Archmage shaping with this), Antimagic field (again, I don't allow archmage shaping with this), polymorphs/shapechange (I made a max stat limit to these, SC=35 STR/CON/DEX max, (su) abilities are under my jurisdiction), Fleshsshiver, Mindblank, SPELL TURNING, Elminster effulgent epuration, Energy immunity etc.

Funny when the sorcerer in our games always casts the energy immunity for each energy before he goes to sleep. That way he gets the spells for the next day and still has all slots for emergencies. Add in Ring of Spell turning and bunch of other spells and it becomes quite hard to hurt him with anything.

Of course, just need to put more caster opponents against them... 5 players vs 8 casters and bunch of melee might be ok .

 

[Thanee]

Rods of Quicken Spell aren't exactly cheap, so those 3 attacks per day wouldn't be something I'd worry about.

Bye
Thanee

 

[apsuman]

True strike is kinda.... ergh.

Almost everyone in my campaign, especially fighter types, have taken 1 level of specialist wizard (Diviner) to get access to 1-3 + true strikes /day. And, of course, everyone has bought the lesser metamagic thingy (quicken), so they can use it whenever they like without problems. Yes, they lose 1 BAB, but gain alot of nice things with 1 level of Wizard.

The DM is to blame for this, imho. Sounds like powergamers run amok.

That said however, by my reading of the lesser metamagic thingy, you have to have it in hand to use it (I think Thanee thinks otherwise -- I might be wrong here). So you have to pull it out (or go without a shield) cast the spell, drop it (which is a free action -- right?) and then draw your weapon (which is a free action -- right?) then attack. Truestrike only give you a +20 on your very next attack, so the fighter might get two attacks in one round, but they would be at something like +30/+5 and if he power attacks he better hit with that first attack because the second one will be really really bad. And since you dropped the metamagic thingy you just disarmed yourself of the item that made this all possible. Heck, if your character power attacks and I were a fast mobility type (rogue, monk, duelist, etc.) I would run in and pick up the magic item and incurr an AOO on my way and one my way out from your character because your power attack penalty would making hitting me really really hard.

I guess it's possible, but it seems like such a bunch of work for such a small benefit. I have never thought that TS was overpowered.