Overshadowed by Elminster?

[Lurks-no-More]

Having your characters overshadowed by Elminster, or Drizzt, or Mordenkainen, or any other "big name" NPC is a frequent complaint, but how often does it actually happen?

In the time I've been gaming, I've never run into a DM using canon NPCs to overshadow, overwhelm or outstrip the PCs, nor even seen them used as a deus ex machina to save the characters' bacon. (I have had unfortunate experiences with DMPCs, however.)

My experience is, of course, anecdotal, but I do get the feeling that this is one of those things that are talked about far more often than it actually happens in games.

 

[Crothian]

Never happened in the way that you describe. I have used the NPCs before but in more campaign helping ways.

 

[Drkfathr1]

I've experienced it occasionally, but its been rare. Usually though its more of an individual DM's pet character rather than a figure from a setting's canon.

When I run such NPC's in a game I try to use them as plot devices rather than to save the PC's or do something they can't. I wouldn't use them to save their bacon, but I would use them to offer advice or commission a quest.

 

[Shemeska]

Never, and not even in settings like FR where some people criticize the plethora of high level NPCs as lending themselves to such.

Last FR game I played in, we never felt overshadowed, even when we had semi-regular interaction with Karsus, pre-deific Azuth, and others who vastly outstripped the PCs in level. A good DM knows how to keep the PCs relevant and involved, even when they're by no means the most powerful people around.

 

[Nymrohd]

I DM and I never let it happen.

 

[Piratecat]

Not since high school.

 

[jdrakeh]

Yes, but rarely and exclusively in the Forgotten Realms.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

Happened once or twice for me, back in the 2nd ed days. Playing with a group of my older sister's friends in an FR game. We started off in some town right next to El's tower, and it was all downhill from there. Between the DM's final encounter where we watched Elminsiter fight some demon thing and another player's tendency to run to the mage for help it put me off from the realms for a long time. Once I came back to the realms with a different group it was much more reasonable.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Dp.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Overshadow does not have to mean deus ex machina or DMPCs; I think that's poor DMing. It's also "overshadowing" (heh) this debate.

I never bought the "concerns of the might" stuff. Many of the high-ranking NPCs don't seem to have much responsibility, and are free to go adventuring. Even guys like Khelben (a lord of the a city) is one of many lords. Other lords can go away and do stuff, so what's his excuse? Given that, in the novels, Khadgar can tell you when a single drow is trying to sneak into his city, it's hard to believe he can overlook things that are actually big and important.

I'm probably going to be flamed for this, but I think World of Warcraft does a better job in this area. I don't play that game, by the way, but am interested in Warcraft lore and try to stay on top of it. In WoW, there are big name movers and shakers, and they're more visible than Elminster ever was... in a good way. King Varian can't help, he's leading an army against the Scourge in Northrend (or whereever he is) that's being led by the Big Bad (the Lich King). Khadgar can't help, he's busy organizing a massive force against whatever-the-heck is coming out of Ulduar. Lower-ranking movers and shakers are often visibly involved in long-lasting operations against foes suited to their level/rank/whatever, putting them out of the picture without having to say "she's getting her hair done". And this from a setting which is (rightly, IMO) criticized for having shallow lore in various categories. WoW provides so many quests that it's easy to see the movers and shakers simply do not have the time to handle these problems. The movers and shakers are also more "human"; if Varian tells you he can't solve a problem, that's easy to believe. If Khelben tells you the same thing, it's a massive dissonance from his hyper-intelligent persona in the novels where he's got an incredibly sophisticated spy network and has the (never-to-be-seen-by-players) skills to do things like move elven magical gates.

Maybe the big reason Eberron hasn't suffered from this problem isn't the lack of high-level good NPCs, maybe it's because their NPCs are believable flawed. Or maybe it's a bit of both. I dunno.

Speaking of which, many of the movers-and-shakers of FR do not inflict this problem. I can picture a bad DM having Drizzt hog the spotlight, but Drizzt simply can't be used as a one-button-humanoid-problem-solver based on either his abilities in the novels or his game stats. He can't teleport, and while intelligent, isn't an unrealistic (or extremely rare) genius.