Pathfinder 1E Paizo Annoucement!

[Timespike]

Maybe eric should start a sock fund because dude's not the only one willing to eat sock if it happens.

So how exactly does addressing the issues in 3.5 going to ensure backwards capability? How do you make a new game when your fans are convinced nothing needs to change, or at least unable to agree. How much can you change before your no longer 3.5+ but 4.0 -

What i was hoping was for necromancer games to do this kind of silliness and for paizo to go forward to forth. Its great to say "nobody is hurt" but the moral of the story is the game company I like is not making the product I want. Thats a loss in my book.

and yes I know necro is kicking it up 4th, I just wish I liked their stuff instead of paizo....

Logos

Hey, I'm sticking with 3.5. Imagine how I must feel.

Malhavoc has packed it in completely. One down.
Green Ronin is going their own way. Two down.
Goodman is going 4e. Three down.
Necromancer Games is going 4e. Four down.
FFG seems to be pretty much out of the d20 RPG business altogether. Five down.
I'm not sure what Privateer Press is doing. Potentially six down.
Paizo is continuing with the system I like or a version of it. FINALLY.

 

[Voss]

Well, this is unexpected.

So, any clues as to how long paizo has been working on this? 65 page pdfs don't appear in a few weeks.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Well, this is unexpected.

So, any clues as to how long paizo has been working on this? 65 page pdfs don't appear in a few weeks.

From Jason Bulmahn on the Pathfinder RPG page :

Back in October 2007, I began a small side project. Since 4th Edition had recently been announced, I began to wonder how many people would stick with the 3.5 rules set. Everyone could agree that 3.5 needed some work, but the system itself was mostly sound.

Eric Mona also started a Paizo Is Still Undecided on the Paizo 4e boards in October 2007. I recall him starting an earlier thread on the same board soliciting opinions about a 3.75e earlier, but I can't find it anymore.

For me, this was not unexpected. Paizo seemed unhappy about 4e from the start.

 

[Mouseferatu]

When WotC ditched Dragon, I swore on that day that I'd never buy another WotC publication.

That seems a rather extreme reaction, given that you have no way of knowing why they did it. WotC hasn't said. Paizo hasn't said. And I doubt either will any time soon.

So in effect, there's a pretty good chance you're boycotting a company for making a 100% rational, legitimate decision. Sure, it's disappointing to lose a product you love--I wish Dragon and Dungeon were still print mags myself--but "punishing" WotC for doing so without any knowledge of the reasons seems more than a little silly.

 

[windoze9x]

One word: Darkvision

 

[Christoph the Magus]

That seems a rather extreme reaction, given that you have no way of knowing why they did it. WotC hasn't said. Paizo hasn't said. And I doubt either will any time soon.QUOTE]

It seems pretty clear that it was done to drive traffic to their website/DDI for updates and crunchy bits. There may have been other factors, of course, but that's got to be one of the big ones.

 

[Spatula]

All Erik has to do is publish no more than five books in 2009 and there's some guaranteed sock-eating going on.

 

[Mephistopheles]

So from this announcement, it is safe to assume they roundly ignored testing the new 4E rules and ignored proper due diligence to come to such conclusions?

I would think we could hardly blame Paizo for this when - as far as I'm aware - they haven't yet been given access to the final rules as a result of the extensive delays from WotC in finalizing the GSL.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Having taken a little while to digest the announcement, I think I can safely say that Paizo's probably in a pretty solid place.

By doing this, they have another year to decide if 4E is appropriate to their styles and wants, and to study sales figures and patterns via their partnership with Necromancer. In the interim, they can keep publishing a successful line of adventures, and tap into the market of people who are reluctant to switch.

Now, here's the kicker. If they had said "This is our permanent decision," I'd agree it was a really bad idea. But if they intend to base their business model off of Pathfinder for, say, a year or two, and then reconsider conversion, it may not be a bad model.

And I don't think WotC would have any impetus to try to "stop" them, even if they could. As someone else said, there are already other competing systems. (Hackmaster, for instance.) I don't think this is going to hurt 4E in any way, and it may--if handled right--turn out to be a "best of both worlds" circumstance for Paizo.

My only disappointment is that since I'm not personally playing or writing 3.5 anymore, it means a personal loss of both high-quality adventures and a potential employer. But I can hope that particular circumstance is only temporary.

I agree with your assessment of the announcement entirely. The way I see it they're making the best of a bad situation. At best the Pathfinder RPG will generate a nice market for them to continue supporting. At worst it fails and they have the option to support 4E, assuming they hadn't already been doing so in parallel to Pathfinder which seems very likely to me.

DB, I very much appreciate the support. But that said, I really don't think Jason was being any more duplicitous than I was. (That is, not at all.) Rather, I expect that what he offered was his honest assessment of what he'd seen of 4E--and that, if anything, the opinions and gaming tastes of the Paizo staff are part of what led to this decision, as opposed to those opinions being "altered" to support said decision. Jason's always been a pretty solid guy, IME.

I agree with you on this also. Seeing how staunchly some people defended the credibility of WotC in the previous incident I'm surprised to see some of those same people immediately seeking to cast the credibility of Paizo into doubt.

 

[Greylock]

That seems a rather extreme reaction, given that you have no way of knowing why they did it. WotC hasn't said. Paizo hasn't said. And I doubt either will any time soon.

I got totally hosed by a Honda dealer in Whitefish Bay, WI once. And to make it really sweet, he did it on a Christmas Eve. That day, I decided I'd never buy a Honda, ever again. And I haven't. All my car business has gone to Mazda and Dodge.

And I know why he did it. He thought he had a easy mark.

For what it's worth, I'm not boycotting Honda. I just decided to take my business elsewhere, because it was apparent that what they had to offer didn't satisfy me, and they didn't respect my position as a consumer.

And for what it's worth, I'm not boycotting Wizards of the Coast. I've simply decided to take my business elsewhere. They played their cards, I played mine. And there is no mystery as to why they dismantled Dragon.