Paladin vs Fighter/Cleric (Previously: Is Turn Undead useful for a Paladin?)

[Elder-Basilisk]

I found that my paladins were pretty good at turning in 3.0 Granted the one had a modified charisma of 22 and the other rolled unusually fortuitously but both paladins I've played have been quite effective turners. The 3.5 nerf to paladins' turning would likely effect this however (the lower-level paladin I played could not have turned most of the things he did no matter how lucky he was on the turning checks had he been one level lower in turning ability).

 

[Nail]

You've forgot the "aid another" bonus, too. Generally, the paladin is the "helper cleric", rather than the primary. After all, there's a PC around playing a cleric. Right?....Right?

Paldins should not be as good as clerics in this regard. I like the change. (...even though it totally nerfs a favorite character concept of mine!)

 

[Voadam]

Re: Is Turn Undead useful for a Paladin?

Based on the above, is a paladin's Turn Undead ability useful? Most of the time, it can only affect an undead creature whose CR is below the paladin’s level, and even then, the chances of success are not high. What do you think?

Yes as a very secondary ability. This is not the core power of the paladin, it is an extra that can take care of some lower CR horde minions.

A cleric who is better at turning can wait for the paladin to clear out animated buffer skeletons before trying his focused blast at the necromancer vampire/lich.

An equal CR undead should be smited, not divinely blasted by a paladin.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Is Turn Undead useful for a Paladin?

An equal CR undead should be smited...

"Smitten".

"Smote" is also acceptable, but uncommon usage as a passive.

-Hyp.

 

[Magic Missile]

Surely the correct past tense is "Smotereded"?

*shrug*

 

[jgsugden]

If you face a single, powerful undead crerature, the paladin's ability is best used to aid another (if allowed by the DM) to turn.

If you face a bunch of weaker undead, the paladin's ability is fine.

It is desgned to do exactly what it does. It isn't a complete waste, but it isn't a central focus of the class.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Divine Feats sure are good... and now that the Turn Undead itself is harder... it will be even more common for that.

In the end the idea was so that Paladins wouldnt get Divine Might in 3rd level when the old Turn Undead was gained... now only in 6th lvl will they be able to get Divine Might.

 

[AGGEMAM]

In the end the idea was so that Paladins wouldnt get Divine Might in 3rd level when the old Turn Undead was gained... now only in 6th lvl will they be able to get Divine Might.

Which strangely makes it more attractive to gain 2 fighter levels first (or multiclass in FR).

 

[dok]

IMO, the problem doesn't lie with the paladin, it lies with the Turning mechanic itself. It's an "all or nothing" mechanic that has the potential to turn an encounter into a non-encounter as undead flee, or do nothing at all. Paladins get their turning ability late, which means the Amulet/Phylactry of Undead Turning is really necessary for them to have the chance for an effect.

Turning is one of the few things that 3.5 didn't change that I wish they had. It's a hold-over from previous editions, resolving in a way totally different from any other mechanic in the game. If it resolved as damage, with a saving throw, or inflicting status effects, it would probably be better. But as it is, it's not the paladin's fault. IMHO.

 

[FireLance]

Thanks for the feedback, all. Looks like the consensus is that the paladin's Turn Undead ability is good for getting rid of low-level undead hordes, but should not be used against more powerful undead creatures. I can live with that, I guess.