Party amnesia

[Arlough]

Okay, I want some input on this idea, but I can't run it by my normal group because I don't want word getting back to them, just in case I end up using it.

This is going to be done in D&D 4e, but really could be done in any system with equal level growth between party members.

I was thinking about having the party wake up on a barge, miles out of town and two levels higher than they were in the last session. They would, in the process of leveling up their characters, have to keep a static copy of the character pre-level up.

They would be told that they had been drugged and had been out of it for several days. The drug they took would wear off eventually, but a side effect of the drug is memory loss.

At this point the players have no idea how they ended up here two levels higher and 1 to 4 weeks later. As the story progresses, there are periodic episodes where they have to go back to the old character sheet, and play out a flashback, as their memories come back to them. This would be in chronological order as the first memories to come back would be the memories farthest from the time they took the drug.
This would also all play into foreshadowing some plot twist along the main storyline.

What are everybody's thoughts on something like that?
Also, I am not sure I am being clear enough. If anyone doesn't understand what I am talking about, let me know and I will do my best to clear it up somewhat.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mark CMG]

This is a tricky scenario but can certainly work with the right group. How this will play with your system might be very different than when using one of the previous editions (or non-D&D systems), particularly the earlier systems, as those tend to engender a greater degree of GM allowance and province over narrative control.

It might be worth detailing the game system(s) experience of the players involved so that some suggestions can be made to help avoid certain pitfalls regarding player expectations. In this way you might mitigate some objections that might crop up, even head them off and keep the objections to a minimum or from coming up at all.

Are these long time gamers who have played for decades (maybe even with broad RPG experience), or relatively new players who only know the current system and game, or some combination in between?

 

[Arlough]

Instead of XP, players just get a level at certain points in the narrative, so the amount of fighting that happens in the flashbacks is entirely fluid.

All of the players have had experience. One has 6 years, two others started when 4th was released, and the last two started tabletop RPGs 7 months ago.

One is a very good divergent thinker, with two who have really started to break out, one that currently lacks confidence to express himself (but we are working on that), and one that is very averse to making a decision, but once the decision has been made (usually by someone else in the party) he is puts forth the effort needed to get the party through a situation.

Only one really has much experience in the previous edition of the system, and one other has a small amount experience roleplaying, but never any level of system mastery.

Given that, what do you think of the idea. Do you think this is a good idea as a story device to use in a roleplay system.

 

[pawsplay]

Do you think this is a good idea as a story device to use in a roleplay system.

No, and for a very simple reason. For this to work, you would already have to have the outcome determined, and that is not how RPGs work. Now, there is probably a non-D&D game that could do this, but doing this in D&D makes nearly every resolution system completely futile. If you want to do this, I suggest visiting The Forge for tools or advice.

Now, if you skip the "old character sheet" element and treat the flashbacks as a collaboratively created cut-scene, that is doable.

 

[Nagol]

What are everybody's thoughts on something like that?
Also, I am not sure I am being clear enough. If anyone doesn't understand what I am talking about, let me know and I will do my best to clear it up somewhat.

Thanks in advance.

As a player, my thought would be if the outcome is predetermined and no choice I make will be consequential, why should I care? Let's take the power-up and go do something I can affect. My main fear would be the DM will have assigned actions/motives/interactions to my character that I would never consider.

As a DM, I'm curious how you'll handle when the PCs walk off the pre-determined map either through making decisions that appear rational from their perspective that wasn't considered ahead of time or having a string of luck (good or bad) that alters their known state at the end. After all, if someone dies in a combat (they got 2 levels somehow) do they spontaneously get better?

 

[Arlough]

No, and for a very simple reason. For this to work, you would already have to have the outcome determined, and that is not how RPGs work. Now, there is probably a non-D&D game that could do this, but doing this in D&D makes nearly every resolution system completely futile.

As a player, my thought would be if the outcome is predetermined and no choice I make will be consequential, why should I care? Let's take the power-up and go do something I can affect. My main fear would be the DM will have assigned actions/motives/interactions to my character that I would never consider.

As a DM, I'm curious how you'll handle when the PCs walk off the pre-determined map either through making decisions that appear rational from their perspective that wasn't considered ahead of time or having a string of luck (good or bad) that alters their known state at the end. After all, if someone dies in a combat (they got 2 levels somehow) do they spontaneously get better?

In my defense, how many of the modules published by WotC from 3e on have not been rail adventures? Heck, how many published by others have? The fact is, none of them are sandbox worlds or settings. They all have a destination reachable by a series of encounters/events, and if the players decide they want to ruin the plans they can just ignore or even deliberately foil the plot.

As for player death, I am good enough at estimating damage soas to avoid killing them. And should I get really lucky, I can always fudge the dice and/or improvise action (instead of defeating the bandits they lose, but rather than waste a perfectly good resource, the bandits try to sell them in to slavery) or even just have ressurection options available (the local lord wants information from them but doesn't have Speak with the Dead as a ritual. He does however have some Raise Dead scrolls.)
Also, in 4e, you get all of your health back when you take an extended rest, so long as you are not diseased. And since WotC has done nearly nothing in the way of disease support, it is really easy to avoid that.

Now, if you skip the "old character sheet" element and treat the flashbacks as a collaboratively created cut-scene, that is doable.

We would be doing it as a collaborative cut-scene, but maybe with some fights. Since they don't have to deal with XP, there is no need to worry about them grinding for levels, nor is there a need for them to get into fights if they would rather avoid it. The only problem I currently see is managing wealth, but if they spend most of the time unable to get to shops, then I can just give them items from their wish-list at the level up, and dribble them out to them as they work through the flashbacks.

Generally, we play this as a giant storytelling session, and quite honestly I don't think the players even really care about "powering up." They tend, more, to focus on the moment rather than what they haven't gotten yet.

But, perhaps you are right. Perhaps exploring what happened in the flashbacks won't intrigue them.
So what if I just have a narrative describing flashbacks periodically?

 

[Scott DeWar]

2 levels in 4 weeks? that sounds a bit much. May be 1 level in 4 weeks.

 

[pawsplay]

In my defense, how many of the modules published by WotC from 3e on have not been rail adventures?

That's not a defense, that's an indictment. And further, and maybe I am mistaken here, this is still a qualitative difference between a dirty railroad and pre-destination.

My one attempt at flashing back just a few hours of game time showed me how truly tricky, and dangerous for continuity, flashbacks can be. "I was just playing my character" can be a source of tension in a normal game; in a flashback scene, it threatens the space-time continuum.

 

[Glade Riven]

There's always the "Dude, where's my car?" scenario, where they don't remember what happened, but have to deal with all these crazy bullcrap schenanigans, people they've ticked off, etc. Or you can just give them a Burn Notice.

 

[Arlough]

2 levels in 4 weeks? that sounds a bit much. May be 1 level in 4 weeks.

They will be whatever level they need to be when they reach plot point X, even if there aren't enough corpses in their wake to justify it.

This is a result of doing my best to find a way to reward the players for taking part in a story rather than a slaughter. So now they are given levels when the story dictates.
It has lead to more sneaking, negotiating, bribing, bluffing, information gathering, blackmailing, climbing, tunneling, and extraordinary use of rituals than in any other game I have even heard of, and I love that.

That's not a defense, that's an indictment. And further, and maybe I am mistaken here, this is still a qualitative difference between a dirty railroad and pre-destination.

The only thing pre-determined will be be them getting on the barge alive, everything else will be up to them.
Similar to the way the AD&D Module Dragons of Desolation expects the players fight Verminard at the end, but with more room for exploration in the middle.

There's always the "Dude, where's my car?" scenario, where they don't remember what happened, but have to deal with all these crazy bullcrap schenanigans, people they've ticked off, etc. Or you can just give them a Burn Notice.

This will most likely be what I go with, if I can't work out a way to play through the flashback.