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Pathfinder Beginner Box Review

Hello buckaroos! We return once again from the feet of the golem with a new PAIZO PRODUCT REVIEW! Today we’re looking at the new Pathfinder Beginner Box, Paizo’s latest in a hugely successful line of products for newcomers to our hobby. Spoiler alert: they’ve got another success on their hands. Let’s get into it!

Hello buckaroos! We return once again from the feet of the golem with a new PAIZO PRODUCT REVIEW! Today we’re looking at the new Pathfinder Beginner Box, Paizo’s latest in a hugely successful line of products for newcomers to our hobby. Spoiler alert: they’ve got another success on their hands. Let’s get into it!

PZO2106 PF2 Beginner Box 1200x675.jpg

First Impressions​

We start off this box review with an initial impression, and the initial impression is good! Bright, colorful, cheerful lettering, and a good heft—all things that say “good RPG thing must buy” to my primal dicegoblin brain. Upon first opening, we see a bag of dice, a bag of token bases, and a handful of small inserts culminating in a page that says READ THIS FIRST.

Of course I do not READ THAT FIRST! I huck the token bases to the side and take a gander at the dice. One each of d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d20, each in strong, single colors with clear lettering. I’m of mixed mind on these dice. On one hand, I appreciate a grab-bag approach to starter dice: my first starter set in a beginner box had mixed colors, and non-uniform dice to me makes them easier to share. That said, the bright primary colors evoke a handful of crayons, and while beginner boxes are in part meant to accommodate a younger audience and get them excited, I think the color-scheme may be skewing a bit young. The Crayola colors are easily forgiven as soon as you dig past the READ THIS FIRST page and you see the character sheets with delightful reference images for each of the dice—but we’ll get to the character sheets in a bit. I only have a few minor issues left with the dice. This is a bit snobbish, but I consider any dice set that doesn’t have two d10 and four d6 to be incomplete. Also, I’d prefer a resealable dice bag over the disposable one: my first set of dice from my beginner box is down to just five dice from the original ten because they spent their lives rattling around loose in their box.

Now, the inserts! A little postcard lets you know that there’s a custom Syrinscape playlist for the adventure contained within. Neat! The other postcards are player reference cards, which are about the best attempt at getting new players over the fairly steep Pathfinder learning curve I’ve seen yet. That said, there is a bit of a shock when you turn them over and are greeted with a wall of text. Finally, the READ THIS FIRST page is short, sweet, and to the point, laying out how to approach the Box as a solo player or with a group of players.

Character Sheets​

Below the READ THIS FIRST we have the character sheets, and here’s where the Box starts to show its hand a bit. You’re clearly meant to use this with a group of players, as it’s those pregenerated character folios which appear before the Hero’s Handbook which contains the solo adventure. That said, I have quite a lot of good things to say about these character sheets. Cover page features a name, a class, a huge splash art of the character’s portrait, and a quick description to help potential newcomers choose their playstyle.

Like the reference cards, the meat and potatoes of the character sheets can seem like an overwhelming barrage of information, but thankfully a solid half of that text is dedicated to explaining and leading a new player through the rather complicated process of understanding a Pathfinder character sheet. Truly excellent layout design is on display here—little coordinating lettered yellow circles lead the reader easily from explanation to relevant box, and the most-used sections of the sheet (AC, hit points, so on) are boxed out in red to stand out from the regular black. As I said before, there’s a handsome little sidebar displaying each of the dice available and their abbreviations—excellent! Also, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen this on a Pathfinder character sheet before, but these now have a space for personal pronouns! Finally, the layout artist gets a cheeky point from me for putting a few characters of character history on the back page of the folio—literal backstory.

As an aside: Wayne Reynolds' art maintains his high level of technical excellence, but there’s something repetitive about the characters' poses. This all stands in contrast to the cover art for the Hero’s Handbook, done by Ekaterina Burmak. The character posing here helps focus the eye on defining aspects of each character: Kyra’s pose pulls back and up into her holy symbol, shining forth with protecting energy against the lightning blast of the dragon. Valeros pushes forward into his shield, taking the brunt of the blast, emphasizing his role on the front line and the use of his shield in his playstyle. And then, off to the side, we see Merisiel darting in, lines almost blurred with speed, unseen by the dragon, dagger darting forward to the exposed neck. Sure, Wayne’s art is technically more accurate to the adventure—the dragon is green, and on top of one of the massive mushrooms in its cavern—but I definitely like Ekaterina’s art more.

The Hero's Handbook​

The Hero's Handbook kicks off with a solo adventure, a delightful little romp through a quick little cavern with a few nasties and quite a bit of treasure. My advice for those taking their own crack at it? Fortune favors the bold. The rest of the Hero’s Handbook concerns itself with expertly navigating a new player through the process of making a new character, complete with the colorful lettered circles that connect to spaces on the provided empty character sheets. Also, the Hero’s Handbook FINALLY does away with the difference between ability scores and ability modifiers—thank goodness.

The Game Master's Guide​

Like the Hero’s Handbook, the Game Master’s Guide kicks off with an adventure. As a GM and as an adventure designer, I do appreciate the way the adventure designers generally nail one-page sections for each room or encounter. Like with the solo adventure, there’s excellent escalation of challenges: first simple combat, then a combat with some saving throws, then skill checks, puzzles, persistent damage, and some undead to let the cleric shine in an offensive moment. Other nice spots of design include magical boon rewards and defending monsters getting some home turf advantages. Also, it must be said: this features a dragon in a dungeon. Points again!

My only real issues with the adventure was the tired artifact of XP—if we’re going to be doing away with ability scores and modifiers, just take the leap to milestone XP, especially if the Game Master’s Guide later insists all players advance equally anyway—and the climactic encounters seem a little lackluster. Perhaps it’s just a glut of excellent encounter design I’ve seen from other places lately, but I tend to expect a little more action from the environment. That said, this is an introductory adventure, and I wouldn’t want to throw a new GM too far into the deep end.

The rest of the Game Master’s Guide is simply excellent material for a new GM learning the ropes, and indeed is a fantastic refresher for experienced GMs wanting a straightforward and concise presentation of the fundamentals of running tabletop games in general and Pathfinder 2E in specific. My only issue with this section is that there's more ogre art in line with their supposed foul and flabby nature. I can tell this was a deliberate choice because much of the rest of the monster art, specifically that of the orcs, is lifted directly from the Bestiary. I will keep my ogres beautiful and beefy, thank you very much.

The Rest​

What’s left? Well, we have the fold-out maps, which are excellent and which absolutely require a full table to use properly. There are tokens for every monster that appears in the Game Master’s Guide, and even tokens for every ancestry/gender/class combination possible with the limited options available in the Hero’s Handbook. Also, some tokens with action and reaction symbols on them for use with the relevant spaces on the included character sheets.

In summary, the Pathfinder Beginner Box is an excellent introduction to the game for new solo players and new groups, and an excellent reintroduction for veterans looking for a refresh on the game’s core identity. Well worth the investment and guaranteed to be a hit at your table.
 

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Ben Reece

Ben Reece


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Jimmy Dick

Adventurer
As I mentioned, I already have the CRB (and the Bestiary & GMG). I've also had the Archives bookmark since PF2 came out. The reason I was asking if I could get by with just the box, I don't want to deal with the 600+ pages of the CRB!
You can for your own made up materials. It's a bit harder if you want to use APs, Adventures, and PFS2 scenarios. I would venture it can still be done. It's really up to what you and your group want to do. My experience in my area is based on a constantly changing player base due to distance issues (welcome to rural America), adulthood concerns (damn kids getting in the way), and just generally life issues like having to work to earn a living (which is way better than not having a job at all). Your mileage may vary.
 

The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
I will point out, in comparing the Starter Set of Pf2e (Menace under Otari) and the two for 5e (Dragon of Icespire Peak and Lost Mines of Phandelver) in terms of content, while the PF2e offering goes to a lower level, the levels in the two games are paced differently-- 5e has its Experience Point scaling system where the game shuffles you very quickly through the first few levels, whereas PF2e utilizes an entirely flat curve, DOIP is even more aggressive than 5e usually is about leveling characters up with its quest milestones.

While it varies by quest, going from level 1 to 2 in Dragons of Icespire Peak is very little actual content-- if they take Umbrage Hill for instance, the players have to deal with a single Manticore, and that's literally it; The Dwarven Expedition quest is like, 3 Ochre Jellies (if the players find the secret room at all, otherwise its 2) and some Orcs. Completing any of these is a level, the later quests are only a little more extensive in terms of content, though some of them have extensive maps, they're dramatically lighter on fights, traps, and puzzles.

Meanwhile, Menace Under Otari (ignoring the accomplishments, since I ignored similarly non-time consuming content for DoIP) has you Fighting 4 Giant Rats for 80 Experience Points, Fight or Sneak Past a Spider for 40 Experience Points, Destroy 4 Skeletons and a Zombie for 100 Experience Points, Fight 4 Kobolds for 80 Experience Points, A Puzzle they can solve for 80 Experience Points, Overcoming Kobolds and Traps for 136 points, Fighting more Kobolds 80 Experience Points, Encountering and Defeating a Cinder Rat for 80 Experience Points, Defeating Xulgaths for 120 Experience Points, Disabling or Destroying a Complex Fountain Trap for 80 Experience Points, Fighting a last group of Kobolds for 120 Experience Points with an opportunity to earn more depending on what they do at the end of the fight. At the end of that last encounter there's a sidebar notifying the GM that depending on some of the optional Experience Points, the Players would level up. There's a few encounters (2-3, including a Dragon Fight) remaining after this in the adventure as a whole, thought it does end after like 2 more major encounters, though the book encourages the GM to use the additional enclosed content to make their own adventures to make up the difference (or buy Troubles in Otari), which Icespire Peak doesn't really have.

From this we can see that the actual amount of adventuring content in the two books isn't that different (though for all that I will say the Essential's Kit is currently much cheaper, though for the life of me I remember paying more at Target when it came out, I think its specifically a loss leader product whereas Paizo can't quite do that to the same extent, the Essentials Kit is barely more expensive than a single set of chessex dice) If a GM does accept the invitation to start homebrewing from there (something the Essentials Kit doesn't really provide is guidelines and resources for this), there's actually quite a few sessions to play through before the players exhaust the content of the Beginner Box from a player perspective, since every level in Pathfinder 2e is that same 1,000 experience points, so a similar amount of material content as I listed above for that level 1 adventure, while 5e doesn't slow down leveling until a little later, and even then its much quicker (intended to have players leveling every other session, rather than every 3-4 for Pathfinder 2e.)
 
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Rune

Once A Fool
On the topic of content in the 5e Essential’s Kit, I want to point out that mine came with a digital code for the D&D Beyond version, including three extra adventure that expand the content quite a lot.
 

The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
On the topic of content in the 5e Essential’s Kit, I want to point out that mine came with a digital code for the D&D Beyond version, including three extra adventure that expand the content quite a lot.
Yeah, I neglected those because they came quite a while later, I think I switched games in the interim even. I also don't want to get too bogged down talking about free content to keep you going, since the "literally everything you could want but premade adventures and lore is free, buy the books because they're nicer to read recreationally, are physical, have good art, and you want to support us" approach Paizo takes with Nethys puts it in a dramatically different weight class in that department, ditto for the lack of PDF support in DND.

The argument just kind of keeps moving goalposts at that point, as we hash out the rules of what perks are included. I do want to mention personally think that DOIP is neat in a "I wish Sandbox adventures were better supported to new players so they'd be a bigger part of the culture" kind of way, DOIP is baby tier sandbox structure, which is neat. I think it needs a lot of GM love to make the adventures not feel poverty-tier in terms of engagement though, there's a lot of dungeon maps that sprawl in meaningless ways, full of monotonous empty rooms and sparse adventure.
 

ronaldsf

Explorer
Seems strange to compare starter boxes for 2 different RPG systems the way people have been so far; each system has its own unique challenges for introducing new players to their system.

PF2's starting point is that someone is already willing to try out PF2 over a competing system. I venture to say that many people are interested in PF2's options but hesitate because think it is "too complex" and can't be learned easily. The Beginner Box serves as a great "ramp up" for the system. The Game Master Guide's adventure really holds your hand in how to govern the table, how to handle Exploration activities, how to run combats, complex hazards, skill checks, etc. And then it follows that up with concrete advice for creating your own adventures. It's exactly what it needs to be. While it doesn't go beyond Level 3, there are many options presented within those three levels, and the rules for expanding beyond Level 3 are all available for free online.
 

ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
You know, I stopped taking some of the stuff said in this thread seriously when someone said, with what I'm assuming is a straight face, that

I don't think Paizo understands how to craft adventures for their own system.

Considering that Paizo was crafting adventures for almost 6-7 years during 3 - 3.5, then another 10 years for Pathfinder 1st edition? I'd venture that you might need to clarify what you're trying to say or admit that you really don't at all know what you're talking about.

If you MEANT to say that there will be some growing pains when crafting adventures for a new edition? Then THAT'S something that I can 100% agree with.

That other statement though? Not so much.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I am not seeing any signs that indicate Paizo shows a lack of understanding what their game is good at. I mean I do think the system is not well suited to linear modules, but the type of linear modules Paizo produces are very well tuned to what PF2 is good at - challenge oriented play where every decision matters. They lean directly into the changes that were made to make skilled play at the table more important.

Paizo has not really changed much in their approach to adventure design since Age of Worms. They design really difficult content where mistakes can be fatal. There has always been a strong vein of gamesmanship at Paizo. You can see that in the streams they do, the adventures they have designed from the beginning, and much of the direct commentary from designers on the Paizo board. Even in the way the GM section is written - skilled play is a pretty big theme.

This is not a D&D 4e style mismatch between the designers and what the game they designed is really good at. I personally think it's a mismatch between what some people are looking for out of the adventures (a fairly chill experience through a linear story) and what Paizo adventures have always really been in my opinion (crucibles in which you have to earn every last bit of story).

Like I have said elsewhere I think Paizo is positioning PF2 as the Dark Souls version of the D&D family of games for better or worse. The game is really good at being that too. I think it's also good at some other things, including less stress inducing play. That's just never how Paizo has tuned any of their adventures.
 

GreyLord

Legend
You know, I stopped taking some of the stuff said in this thread seriously when someone said, with what I'm assuming is a straight face, that



Considering that Paizo was crafting adventures for almost 6-7 years during 3 - 3.5, then another 10 years for Pathfinder 1st edition? I'd venture that you might need to clarify what you're trying to say or admit that you really don't at all know what you're talking about.

If you MEANT to say that there will be some growing pains when crafting adventures for a new edition? Then THAT'S something that I can 100% agree with.

That other statement though? Not so much.
I was not the one who said it, but I DO think something may be wrong when you design a game and think that the introductory combat to the system for beginning players should be challenging enough for them so that you start killing the PC's off before the players even have a chance to figure out how to play.

That instantly made at least one of our group lose ALL INTEREST in PF2e. It doesn't matter that we kept playing for a few weeks after that to give it a fair chance, after that combat, they had lost all interest. Other items in that adventure also were not particularly fun to be honest (I know Paizo writes good adventures, or have in the past, though if this is a signal of what they are doing now, the comment above is right...that adventure in the BB is pretty dull overall...it's a straight dungeon crawl, but not one that is all that creative. The most creative part was the creature in the pond in the cave...other than that...not that great of a dungeon crawl to be honest).

Crafting something that make people to WANT TO AVOID your system is generally not seen as a good way to introduce them to your game system.

I will say the Plaguestone adventure was more interesting at least, so they haven't lost it all, but that BB box introduction was BAD...at least for our group. We have no intention of ever playing PF2e ever again...depsite our local Pathfinder fanatic wanting us to. We gave it a fair shot via the BB and it's rules...and you know what...it turned us off even more than we were before.

I've actually never had a Starter, Basic, or Beginner set ever do that where we were left with less desire to play the system than we had before we tried it out. Of course, that's from the view of a bunch of players that were not big into Pathfinder to begin with, so maybe we are not the target audience...but that still should make someone pause and think about what they may be doing.

With the PF BB (1e) I cannot say I was a big PF fan, but it was decent enough that I went from being sick of the 3.5 antics of the past to being willing to play in a PF1e game (which we have on occasion...even molified our PF fan in our group that though we will not continue with their PF2e games, we will do a Shattered Star campaign with them every other week with PF1e to at least keep them in their Pathfinder play). After the PF2e BB box experience, which I expect is a sampling of what the full PF2e game is like...I really don't want to try it again. It might not seem like much from a Non-PF fan, but that actually has a wide gulf of difference between the impact that the two BB boxes made on me.

And note: There are good things about the system, but there are some things that really turned me off about the system too. For example, the AC of the enemies are about 1 or 2 points too high...every time...and as you get past level 2 the HP tends to make combats a little bit longer than desired, which unfortunately is a large part of the game, or at least the games we played. The combats should be more exciting, but they seemed more of a drag as we went through the adventures. I DO like some things I listed before, such as Fighters being able to actually be fighters because they are more skilled in weapons and armor as well as some other items...but compared to what drags the system down, or did for us in the BB game...not enough to make me want to play it again.
 

ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
I was not the one who said it, but I DO think something may be wrong when you design a game and think that the introductory combat to the system for beginning players should be challenging enough for them so that you start killing the PC's off before the players even have a chance to figure out how to play.

That instantly made at least one of our group lose ALL INTEREST in PF2e. It doesn't matter that we kept playing for a few weeks after that to give it a fair chance, after that combat, they had lost all interest. Other items in that adventure also were not particularly fun to be honest (I know Paizo writes good adventures, or have in the past, though if this is a signal of what they are doing now, the comment above is right...that adventure in the BB is pretty dull overall...it's a straight dungeon crawl, but not one that is all that creative. The most creative part was the creature in the pond in the cave...other than that...not that great of a dungeon crawl to be honest).

Crafting something that make people to WANT TO AVOID your system is generally not seen as a good way to introduce them to your game system.

I will say the Plaguestone adventure was more interesting at least, so they haven't lost it all, but that BB box introduction was BAD...at least for our group. We have no intention of ever playing PF2e ever again...depsite our local Pathfinder fanatic wanting us to. We gave it a fair shot via the BB and it's rules...and you know what...it turned us off even more than we were before.

I've actually never had a Starter, Basic, or Beginner set ever do that where we were left with less desire to play the system than we had before we tried it out. Of course, that's from the view of a bunch of players that were not big into Pathfinder to begin with, so maybe we are not the target audience...but that still should make someone pause and think about what they may be doing.

With the PF BB (1e) I cannot say I was a big PF fan, but it was decent enough that I went from being sick of the 3.5 antics of the past to being willing to play in a PF1e game (which we have on occasion...even molified our PF fan in our group that though we will not continue with their PF2e games, we will do a Shattered Star campaign with them every other week with PF1e to at least keep them in their Pathfinder play). After the PF2e BB box experience, which I expect is a sampling of what the full PF2e game is like...I really don't want to try it again. It might not seem like much from a Non-PF fan, but that actually has a wide gulf of difference between the impact that the two BB boxes made on me.

And note: There are good things about the system, but there are some things that really turned me off about the system too. For example, the AC of the enemies are about 1 or 2 points too high...every time...and as you get past level 2 the HP tends to make combats a little bit longer than desired, which unfortunately is a large part of the game, or at least the games we played. The combats should be more exciting, but they seemed more of a drag as we went through the adventures. I DO like some things I listed before, such as Fighters being able to actually be fighters because they are more skilled in weapons and armor as well as some other items...but compared to what drags the system down, or did for us in the BB game...not enough to make me want to play it again.

Hey that's fair. I feel the same way about 5E. Well maybe with a lot less venom but I came the to conclusion that 5E was definitely not for me. It's not a poorly designed or bad game. I've actually played games with systems/mechanics that I didn't care for. Most times a good GM can even make a bad system shine but if you're not inclined to like I system then no amount of shine is going to do it for you.

I've been running a PF2 game on Roll20 for the past 6 months or so and am loving the system. The adventure I'm running is one of my own make but the intention is to at some point when the PC's hit 5th or 6th level is to do a conversion of either Frog God Games TOMB OF ABYSTHOR or TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL. When that's done, I'll probably convert one of their older AP's (looking at Council of Thieves or Ironfang Invasion) to PF2.

I think that the PF2 BB is fine and is of good value for what comes in the box, not just the adventure which admittedly is very straightforward. PF2 is a more involved game than 5E so getting a GM used to the mechanics is important. Then again I learned Basic and Advanced D&D on B2 and T1.

Regarding the lethality of the adventure, I'm going to assume that if this was designed for beginners? and there's a first time GM running this game? there's going to be a section that tells that first time GM how to handle a combat going AGAINST the PC's.

And Lo and behold on page 32-33 There IS that section under ENCOUNTERS. Where it talks about Surrender and Escape. All of which are options and part of the game, especially for new people learning it. I've run MANY a starter game for both experienced players and Newbies and I almost NEVER end the game with character deaths (unless it was Paranoia or most recently the ALIEN RPG) especially if the goal is to learn the system. Maybe that's just me though.

For ME, RPG's whether their books or Beginners's Boxes are tools, references for learning the game. If the enclosed adventure is good? BONUS. If it's average, Okay but is it helping me learn to run the game? Then GREAT. If one bad play through is enough to completely sour a group on a game? I guess that's fair. I played in a 4E play test many years ago and didn't quite like the game. It took me running a few games of 4e to make an informed decision that this game, again, not a BAD GAME just wasn't the D&D I wanted to play or run. I get it though. You don't like pathfinder and you think it's a bad game. I think it's pretty tight and a very different game than PF1. To each their own.

Bowing out of this conversation as there's no further point to make. Be well all and have fun no matter what game you're playing!
 

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