Pathfinder 1E [Pathfinder] Firedust questions

[Sedric the Hero]

How many doses are in a cask of Firedust?

How much does a single dose of Firedust cost?

Can you buy Firedust in a 5lb keg size(and would it still be 100 doses)?? How much would it cost?

 

[RangerWickett]

I thought they had costs for gunpowder in PF's Ultimate Combat. If so, it's exactly the same. The only difference is that firedust looks different, and can ignite underwater.

 

[Sedric the Hero]

It would except you've given a price in the Zeitgeist player's guide for a 20 lb cask of Firedust of 20 gp (which is four times the weight a "keg" is as listed in Ultimate Combat)..which would be completely different than the pricing in Ultimate Combat. I.E. according to Ultimate Combat a 5 lb keg of Blackpowder would cost (assuming 'Commonplace Guns') 1000 x 25% = 250 gp...and thus one could assume a 20 lb "cask" (being 4 times heavier) should cost 1000 gp. This kind of throws off the whole pricing structure of Ultimate Combat

 

[Sedric the Hero]

I am assuming this is either some kind of error, or it wasn't really thought through. Potentially the MUCH cheaper Firedust would even affect those alchemical cartridges that would normally use Black Powder/Firedust and bring down their prices as well.

 

[Rugult]

I'll address this one...

The original intent was to keep firearms based on the costs in Ultimate Combat. So guns/ammo cost the amount listed in Ultimate Combat (keeping in mind that they only cost 25% as we're using the Commonplace firearm rules). Part of this problem was due to Ultimate Combat being released after the initial Player's Guide, after we had mentioned Firedust costs/effects.

The cost and information listed for Firedust was a holdover from some material that shows up in the adventures. In essence, the firedust costed out in the main book is 'unrefined' and meant for enterprising PCs who want to construct demolition charges and the like.

All this being said, if we do another revision of the guide or (hopefully) a hardcover Zeitgeist book, we'll review this further.

I hope that's all clear as mud

 

[Sedric the Hero]

Ok that clears up a lot. The 20 gp cask of Firedust mentioned in the Zeitgeist Player's Guide can be assumed to not be 'weapon ready', but useful for blowing stuff up Thanks, I appreciate the quick response.

 

[Cheezmo Miner]

Ah. I had the op's question, but I assumed you meant that firedust was supposed to be cheaper and heavier than blackpowder. I worked around the discrepancy by saying a firedust cask was a 100 doses and weighed 5 lbs instead of 20.

 

[N'raac]

There's a certain logic to it. 20 lb of unrefined Firedust for 20 gp + reagants and catalysts costing 5 gp + a gunsmith's efforts and expertise = 5 pounds (100 shots) of refined firedust.

So, with that resolved, one question remains - what happens when a 5 lb cask of refined firedust is exploded as a weapon, since the PG section appears to refer to that 20 lb cask of unrefined Firedust?

 

[Rugult]

There's a certain logic to it. 20 lb of unrefined Firedust for 20 gp + reagants and catalysts costing 5 gp + a gunsmith's efforts and expertise = 5 pounds (100 shots) of refined firedust.

So, with that resolved, one question remains - what happens when a 5 lb cask of refined firedust is exploded as a weapon, since the PG section appears to refer to that 20 lb cask of unrefined Firedust?

I would leave that up to GM fiat, considering the weaponized versions would be distributed differently based on where it was manufactured, etc, etc. As you'll find from reading future adventures, we try to post the specific damage associated with exploding firedust (of which there have been a few cases).

 

[N'raac]

That's fine for in-scenario events, but it doesn't help much for a PC who decides to light up a keg or two. At 25 gp for a Gunsmith, a keg of refined Firedust is about the cost of holy water, so I can certainly see a "mad bomber" taking that approach.

The PG p 13 suggests about 2d6/20 lb cask with a 14 DC reflex save (+2 for every extra cask). I don't have the Pathfinder book in front of me to compare with black powder, so maybe using the same stats for a keg of powder would be the norm.

Is refined firedust more or less volatile than black powder? I get the sense it's less so from the PG, but on skimming through it again, maybe that was a misinterpretation on my part. After all, the same weight of refined firedust propels the same number of firearm projectiles for the same range and damage. There aren't any other mechanical differences between firedust and black powder, just flavour (less smoke; less likely to foul or corrode the gun but no change in misfires; not ruined by water), so using the same explosion rules seems reasonable.

It doesn't really matter whether the effects are the same (refining packs the same force in 25% the mass), higher (it's more concentrated so more powerful) or lower (the refining process stabilizes it, much like converting nitroglycerin to TNT, so while more powerful when properly set off, it's less dangerous in the keg).

With a cask (20 lb) exploding in a 5' radius, and a ton (100 casks, presumably 5 casks by 5 casks stacked 4 high) in a 25' radius, the area isn't going to be huge, presumably. Again, I'm unsure how that compares to black powder, but at the end of the day, that doesn't make much difference.

As for reading the adventures - certainly not before I play them, as another of our group's DM's (whom you know as Sedric the Hero) will be running them. But the firedust data is useful as one of our group is building his Gunslinger.