Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Intro Set - What Do You Want To See?

[Erik Mona]

I think just about every poster in this thread is going to be satisfied in one way or another. I'm nodding my head a lot and agreeing with a lot of stuff, and recognizing a lot of stuff we have said ourselves in meetings, so yeah.

Right now we're juggling production schedules and contents and stuff. The biggest challenge here is to include as much stuff as is required to pull off the idea, just enough stuff to make it really cool, and not have it cost $768.38.

This is a lot more difficult than you might expect, but we've got top men working on it.

--Erik

 

[Walking Dad]

Yes, at this point I think if people are not playing PAthfinder it is either because they are playing 4E, or something else, Why? The reason I usually hear is because the "other" RPG is simpler.

So like I told Jason when I talked to him at Neon Con, I think this should not only be a intro game, I think it should a complete but much simplified game.

...

This. No sense to only simplify the intro and still have the rules-bulk whent you get your first level.

A Pathfinder Intro Set that uses actual Pathfinder rules (just not all of them, like AoO for example) and a Pathfinder Lite for the ones who think the game to complex, but not both in one.

 

[Perram]

I don't want this to be a forked version of PF at all. As an advocate of the game, I very much need this as a recruiting tool, and if this is incompatible with the full PF then it is completely worthless as such.

I will be buying this box and giving it out to plant the seeds of new gaming groups in my area.

That said, I like the idea of keeping with the tradition that has worked before:

1) Four Races, Four Classes -> Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling. Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard. If you want to add a couple of others, that would be good too... but I would really focus it.

2) Support up to level 3 or so. Let them get their 2nd level spells and next feat. Let the players see that the game expands as they continue to play. But don't flood them with too many options.

3) Character sheets, dice, mini DM screen would all be nice. Also a pencil. They should be able to play with just what is in the box.

4) A really AWESOME intro adventure. You write great adventures, guys. It is your best thing. Make this one AWESOME. Also, don't make it too obvious that it is for kids. If you want to avoid some of the more mature themes, I understand, just don't make it sunshine and unicorns and evil black knights... (unless you can make those things awesome... then go for it!) This is VERY important.

The adventure is what is going to show them how great the game can be... it will show them what they can do with it, the kind of experiences they can have while playing. If you can show the new players how much fun the game is, they'll buy in.

 

[Treebore]

Personally I think every "intro" set to date has been a failure. I think a rules lite full version is the way to go. That way you can use it as an intro, AND appeal to people who don't want the full rules bloat, and with the new players book, PF has definitely entered the rules bloat phase.

Doing it in a series similar to the old D&D boxed sets would probably work well. Not saying they have to be boxed sets, just saying "beginner", "advanced", and "mastery" would work well.

Or have one relatively cheap beginner/intro product and then just have a second product that clearly builds you up to Mastery, but still considerably simpler than full Pathfinder.

Treat full Pathfinder as the "Elite" system.

 

[Mr Baron]

Eric - thanks for the comments. I know you have "top guys" on it.

I am in agreement with Tree...I am not sure that I want a game that only goes to level 3. I know that there is history with basic box sets, but I like the the idea of a Pathfinder lite book that is compatible with the full version, but with a number of the more complex concepts/rules taken out. I think the basic engine for pathfinder is fine, but I do think its possible to create a lite verison that is compatible with the full version.

PS..I have faith in Jason!

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

The very idea of this makes me happy. Here are a few of my opinions on what is needed:

1. Everything included in the box. Dice, Pencil, Character Sheet, a book with player and gamemaster information, and an adventure. Tokens and maps would be nice if possible.

2. Four or five races, and the same number of classes.

3. Use either the purchase system or a pre-set array for ability scores.

4. Give us the first 10 levels of each class. Reduce the numbers of class options where choices need to be made, but don't eliminate them entirely. Fewer domains, Rogue talents, and the like.

5. Reduce the number of spells dramatically. Keep to some basic themes, and leave out summoning and polymorph.

6. Remove Spell Resistance. It's always been a little awkward.

7. Skills can be left alone.

8. Reduce the number of feats by half. The characters only reach level 10 as it is.

9. Remove magic item crafting.

10. Reduce the number of magic items to the basics. Named items are the norm.

11. Reduce the number of modifier types.

12. Leave combat how it is.

13. Include the entire Gamemastering chapter.

 

[Jorunkun]

IntroSet = "E6 for kids"

The Intro Set should be targeted at kids aged 12 to 15. These are the people the hobby most needs to win over, and who most need an introduction.

It should feature a subset of the current PF rules, with fewer classes, fewer races and a shorter span of levels - calling it an "E6 edition" might be clever.

The rules governing things like skills, feats, combat or magic should be re-edited with the target-group in mind, including more examples and step-by-step guides. They should not be different from the core rulebook in substance though - the goal being to upsell Intro-set players to the core rules, not to create a separate iteration of the game.

The Intro-Set should be presented in a box containing dice, a set of minis for the PCs and three booklets - a player's handbook, a GM's handbook and an introductory adventure. This is so the kid who has the box can pass around the player rules among his or her friends.

 

[mxyzplk]

I think just about every poster in this thread is going to be satisfied in one way or another. I'm nodding my head a lot and agreeing with a lot of stuff, and recognizing a lot of stuff we have said ourselves in meetings, so yeah.

This is a lot more difficult than you might expect, but we've got top men working on it.

Nice, I have confidence it will rock.

 

[Perram]

I just don't think it will be a good idea for Pathfinder to try to support two different games that compete for the same audience.

I also don't see the value in a rules light version of PF at all, considering that there are tons of rules light versions of d20 fantasy and D&D like fantasy freely available. Microlite20, OSRIC, S&W, E6, and I'm sure nearly a dozen others exist out there for that niche.

What would a rules lite Pathfinder bring to this table?



I also can not see how PF has entered a state of 'Rules Bloat' already, Treebore, when there is only one major splat book available for the game since its release and only 2 more in production for the whole next year.

There are incidental crunch bits in the various campaign materiels... but they are minor and only a few bits of crunch per title and it is always themed to the title, meaning if you aren't using that sourcebook / region, it would be unlikely to use the material. Doubly so if you aren't using Golarion as a campaign setting at all.

Also, unless you are GMing Pathfinder Society... I don't see how rules bloat would be a problem even if there were a flood of material available as you just play with the books you've got... there is no need at all to keep adding material you have no desire for to your game.

 

[Walking Dad]

The Intro Set should be targeted at kids aged 12 to 15. These are the people the hobby most needs to win over, and who most need an introduction.

It should feature a subset of the current PF rules, with fewer classes, fewer races and a shorter span of levels - calling it an "E6 edition" might be clever.

Or maybe not, for reasons spelled out in this thread:
What the World needs: E6 in Book Format

In short: When people hear E6, they have much different expectations.

The rules governing things like skills, feats, combat or magic should be re-edited with the target-group in mind, including more examples and step-by-step guides. They should not be different from the core rulebook in substance though - the goal being to upsell Intro-set players to the core rules, not to create a separate iteration of the game.

Kids are not stupid... but I think the intro game should not use maneuvers, for example.

The Intro-Set should be presented in a box containing dice, a set of minis for the PCs and three booklets - a player's handbook, a GM's handbook and an introductory adventure. This is so the kid who has the box can pass around the player rules among his or her friends.

And a map and tokens, to help them visualize the first few sessions.