Pathfinder 1E Pathfinderize the Warforged

[Jeff Wilder]

If you leave the warforged "as is" and say they have "no favored class," they'll be reasonably well-balanced as a Pathfinder race.

 

[Clifford]

What I did for my games was
War forged: +2 con +2 int -2 cha and dropped the light fortification. The reasons being they needed a boost to one mental stat, wisdom didn't seem to fit but Int did, as they are very fast learners. The -2 charisma seemed to fit given they just do not know how to interact with some one not giving orders

I took away the light fortification as it was a left over from constructs not being able to be crited. As that is now gone, I saw no reason to leave it. As for other immunitys I really can not see a justified way to remove them. They still have alot of drawbacks. Not being able to heal is huge. Sure a wand can fix that but it's another resource on the party, even channel only half effects the warforged who is often they guy in the front taking the big hits

I think this just about fixes war forged. The pathfinder races are standing around +1ish Ecl. Even though pathfinder doesn't relay support such things really.

 

[Set]

A thread about changing the fluff of warforged, which may or may not be useful, once you've hammered out what stats you want to give them;

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboard...inder/general/archives/ebberonRacesInGolarion

 

[Anguish]

As a rule everything got a cookie or two in Pathfinder over straight 3.5 rules. Races got more powerful (humans get to add a +2 to any one stat they want) and all of the classes increased in power.

Based on this fact alone anything brought in from bog standard 3.4 is going to need a boost unless its been generally deemed to have already been overpowered. While some of the features of the Warforged are nice they are certainly not overpowered. So a bump is needed.

The races and classes that got the proverbial bump were the core, original, weakest of their lot. The improvements were made to make them competitive with material released after the 3.5 core. Bumping up everything else just because the core classes and races got benefits is just an arms race.

Also, warforged were widely considered a sort of LA +.5 race. Not quite deserving LA +1 but "better" than the core races. As such, they're likely very nicely balanced now.

I'm deeply in the "leave them alone" faction. Neither a nerf nor a boost need they.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The races and classes that got the proverbial bump were the core, original, weakest of their lot. The improvements were made to make them competitive with material released after the 3.5 core. Bumping up everything else just because the core classes and races got benefits is just an arms race.

Also, warforged were widely considered a sort of LA +.5 race. Not quite deserving LA +1 but "better" than the core races. As such, they're likely very nicely balanced now.

I'm deeply in the "leave them alone" faction. Neither a nerf nor a boost need they.

I disagree completely if for no other reason than most of the Warforged cookies are defensive and thus very easily ignored. Poison immune, disease immune, and even energy drain immune are great, but only when the party gets attacked by those. If the party isnt then all you have is useless talents while others are running around with bonus skills, bonus feats, and stat bonuses they get to use in every single encounter.

In the end the mot valuable cookie the Forged gets is the light fortification bonus and technically since that is based off the golem concept one could easily argue that it does not apply since Pathfinder rogues can use sneak attack on golems now.

So in any given pathfinder session what do you get? +2 on the weakest physical stat, -2 on two mental stats, and a bunch of immunities that come up maybe one battle in 10 (probably less since the DM will know they are pointless). Doesnt sound all that great, much less useful, compared to a pathfinder human who get +2 to any stat they chose, bonus feat, and skill points.

 

[Clifford]

I disagree completely if for no other reason than most of the Warforged cookies are defensive and thus very easily ignored. Poison immune, disease immune, and even energy drain immune are great, but only when the party gets attacked by those. If the party isnt then all you have is useless talents while others are running around with bonus skills, bonus feats, and stat bonuses they get to use in every single encounter.

In the end the mot valuable cookie the Forged gets is the light fortification bonus and technically since that is based off the golem concept one could easily argue that it does not apply since Pathfinder rogues can use sneak attack on golems now.

So in any given pathfinder session what do you get? +2 on the weakest physical stat, -2 on two mental stats, and a bunch of immunities that come up maybe one battle in 10 (probably less since the DM will know they are pointless). Doesnt sound all that great, much less useful, compared to a pathfinder human who get +2 to any stat they chose, bonus feat, and skill points.

Well heck We better rethink dwarves cause you don't get hostile spells cast on you every adventure. Or rethink Gnomes cause we don't fight Goblins all the time. Maybe Any one of a warforges immunity only come up every now and than But they have so many at least one of them is bound to come up relatively often.

That said however maybe we should either give them one more plus or take away one of their minuses. After-all they don't get the Fortification Goody anymore.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Well heck We better rethink dwarves cause you don't get hostile spells cast on you every adventure. Or rethink Gnomes cause we don't fight Goblins all the time. Maybe Any one of a warforges immunity only come up every now and than But they have so many at least one of them is bound to come up relatively often.

That said however maybe we should either give them one more plus or take away one of their minuses. After-all they don't get the Fortification Goody anymore.

Yeah, because immunity to disease is completly on par with bonus to saves against spells.

 

[Remathilis]

Think of it this way:

1.) Armor Adjustment (+2 armor, 10% ASF) = Leather Armor. 15 gp.
2.) Light Fortification Armor Ability = 1,000 gp (since they don't need another +1 to enchant it).
3.) Non-necessity to breathe = Necklace of Adaptation. 9,000 gp.
4.) Immunity to Poison = Periapt of Proof against Poison. 27,000 gp.
5.) No Eat/Drink/Sleep = Ring of Sustenance. 2,500 gp.
6.) Immunity to Disease = Periapt of Health. 7,500 gp.
7.) Immunity to Paralysis = No direct analog, but an element of the Ring of Free Movement (maybe 5,000 of its 40,000 gp cost).
8.) Immune to Energy Drain = Death Ward Armor Ability (MIC 10) 1,000 gp.

There are no items that grant blanket immunity to sleep, fatigue, or the sickened condition.

Total Cost of WF abilities = 53,015 gp. In other words, the sum total in gold of a PC between 9th and 10th level.

That doesn't include the cost of the free permanent suit of Dwarven/Adamantine Plate (16,500) or Elven/Mithral Chain (5,150) that a WF can get a 1st level for a feat.

Granted, this is partially balanced by worse than normal ability scores (net -2), no bonus languages (common only, no free for Int), partial healing immunity, and a few corner-case special weaknesses (fear rust monsters, and druids if your campaign features a lot of those).

Still, if you think they're under the curve compared to the seven core races, feel free to add on.

 

[Sigurd]

Doesnt sound all that great, much less useful, compared to a pathfinder human who get +2 to any stat they chose, bonus feat, and skill points.

Being able to pick your bonus is only a marginal improvement. Players don't determine challenges or adventures and shouldn't have a much better idea than the rules at large. Besides I think there is a sort of bias towards humans as the core race - helps explain why there are so many of them.

You seem determined to have a more powerful warforged - good for you. Good luck.

 

[pawsplay]

Don't forget, most of those abilities are effectively alternate slot or no-slot properties.