PbP DM techniques...

[ryryguy]

Hey all, as I'm planning to try my hand at DMing here for the first time, I thought I'd start a thread to discuss different techniques in running PbP games, and also maybe a bit about adventure design.

If you have any particular tricks, things that you find work well or maybe things that don't, please post them here!

There's also a few specific things I thought worth discussing. One is Mal Malenkirk's style of running combats, where all the players act as a group and in any order. He describes it here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4862357-post9.html and a little bit more here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4863253-post19.html.

It seems like it ought to work pretty well to keep things moving. One thing I was wondering (maybe Mal can answer), does this technique cause any problems as far as interrupt and opportunity actions go? Having the players roll for monsters' simple opportunity attacks is fine, but how do you handle stuff like goblin tactics (?) where the goblin can shift in response to a missed attack? Do you actually let the players move the goblin? How about if it's something more exotic, with a trigger condition you don't want to tell the players about advance?

I suppose these things are hard to handle in "regular" style of turn sequence, too, not just Mal's style... hidden combatants and traps could also be a problem. Surprises in general. How do you deal with it?

On a different note: adventure design. It looks to me like the PbP adventures here tend towards the scripted/set-piece style of design, rather than open-ended and event based.

Caveat: As mentioned, my PbP experience is limited, and I've hardly read every adventure thread here, so I could be completely wrong! But that's my impression. Also, I'm not trying to start some argument about "railroading" vs. "sandbox" here... but assuming I'm not completely off base, is there something about PbP that makes it harder to run a looser style? One thing that comes to mind is that you may not know who the players and PCs are in advance. I'd think this could make it a little harder to "prep for improvisation". Also, is there anything about having to come up with a complete proposal up front that leads to a more scripted style?

 

[Stringbean2142]

As a player in Mal's Zombies game, I can say thus far the combat has worked pretty well. And we just ran into a hidden monster in combat; I'm not sure if it's handled this way every time, but Mal sprung the monster on us on the enemies' turn, rather than as a readied action or an interrupt. Here's the post with the new monster's attack:

Clawed Zombie Attack!

He's also done a few recons, where things we've said or done wouldn't have worked. In all, it's not intrusive at all, which surprised me. I considering stealing the idea for myself, as it's much more fuid than the more traditional plaeyr 1 - DM - Player 2 - etc. that I've run in the past.

I like the idea of a DM thread, and have more I'd probably like to add to a DM discussion (questions, really, as I ramp up for my own adventure) but sleep is calling my weak body to bed...

 

[covaithe]

You might be interested in the Hoofchew behind the scenes thread, which goes over my first adventure here from a DM's perspective. Most of it is still pretty relevant, I think.

I've been watching Mal's combats with interest, too, and I tried my hand at it a bit myself in Closed Eye. I admit fudging the initiative slightly -- but only slightly; I got lucky on the rolls -- to get all the monsters in one block so I'd have to update less often. And I've been interpreting the players' actions as happening roughly in the order they post.

I think it works pretty well, but there's one thing that I think people should keep in mind when they set out to do this: it makes combat more dangerous for the players, because the DM can coordinate monster attacks more effectively. In theory the players can coordinate their attacks, too, but it's harder for them to do that in PbP, 'cause the back and forth of tactical planning slows things down just as much as adhering to strict initiative order. The DM only has to coordinate with themselves.

Still, I think it's probably a net win. 4e combat isn't nearly as dangerous for the PCs as in previous editions.

 

[renau1g]

Cov - re:deadliness of combat - Especially at low levels, most 1st level PC's won't be killed by a greataxe wielding orc anymore.

One thing is the willingness to move forward if people are slow. I try to give 48 hrs or so, but if someone's lagging, feel free to NPC them. I'm also open to retcons, so if there is an interrupt, etc. I would just adjust and allow the PC's who fall below the action to re-do their actions (but keeping their rolls from the original action). Expect that the posting rate will drop off after the initial excitement. It's quite common that people will post a couple times a day when the addy first starts, but then it falls into a normal routine of about 1/day or so for most people. Personally, I find Maptools to be very beneficial to me when running combat. It takes a few minutes to get the map set-up, but you can input hp/ac/defenses and other notes right in the monster info so no need to reference other materials. This is helpful when using elites (or solos) as they usually last a few more rounds and it allows you to input the status effects that I'm sure they'll be under.

You already mentioned Mal's method of combat, so I think that's a big one (for me at least). I roll a d20 and use the average init score of the monsters to determine their group position. As Cov mentioned it does allow you to coordinate actions slightly more, but the group is usually able to overcome these with only minimal issues (see my game for this...stupid push powers knocking guys outta my cube).

As you've already done, feel free to drop a line to some of the other DM's around here that you like their playstyle and pick their brains from time to time. I think we're all refining our methods as we DM.

Good Luck!

 

[ukingsken]

Hahaha just from my own personal experience I find the problems always arise when I feel pressured to rush a post in instead of waiting the extra few hours/day and doing it when I have the time (This morning in Broken Wards is a prime example).

My best advice is plan ahead, and make sure when you do anything you give yourself plenty of time and doublecheck your posts.

 

[CaBaNa]

but in cases that you do make mistakes, the people here are understanding, and appreciative for your trying in the first place.



(Kamotz is in Broken Wards...)

 

[covaithe]

Personally, I find Maptools to be very beneficial to me when running combat. It takes a few minutes to get the map set-up, but you can input hp/ac/defenses and other notes right in the monster info so no need to reference other materials. This is helpful when using elites (or solos) as they usually last a few more rounds and it allows you to input the status effects that I'm sure they'll be under.

Maptool tip: you can attach a handout to tokens and show it within maptool. Right click on a token, select Edit (near the bottom), go to the Config tab at the right. In the Handout area at the lower right, you can drag an image, e.g. a screen capture of the monster's compendium entry. Thereafter, you can right click on the monster's token, pick Show Handout, and see the monster's stat block from within maptool:

 

[renau1g]

Thanks! I was copying and pasting into the entry, this is significantly more effective.

 

[Velmont]

I've played a lot with Mal. He has been using that kind of combat in another game. You can see the first adventure and second one in those threads:

24
24 - day2

I love that style of combat, and I think to use it when I'll DM.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

I just use Gimp, with a layer for each token and some layers that I can hide for "status icons" (I usually just use one for "bloodied" and one for "dead"). I have a separate text file with a list of monsters and all the status effects. That way I can just cut and paste from my notes into the turn summary of all my posts, and it's not a big deal to have one copy of notepad and one copy of gimp open.

I tried maptool once, but I found that after exporting a screenshot, I had to open it with gimp and trim the edges anyway, so it was easier to just do all the editing in gimp.