PC created with the NPC mechanic

[Taralan]

I believe WoTC did a good job simplify the task for DM's with the fourth edition.

However, they seem to have increased the complexity tremendously for players, who like mine, may want a simple class to play from time to time to concentrate on role-playing and are not always willing to juggle 15 different powers during play, let alone during character creation.

Last night, one of my PC died and the player took over an NPC for the rest of the evening and seemed to enjoy it much more than his regular character. He liked the simplicity of the stat block and seemed "liberated" in a way.

Now what if, as a kind of "basic" option, players were allowed to design their character as NPC's ? What would be the ramifications ? Would they be underpowered, would other adjustments need to be made (maybe the amount of healing surges) . Could this work even if other players enjoy the "advanced form of the PC or would everyone need to use this option to keep some modicum of balance ?

It seem we have here the kernel of an idea that would be very simple and could go a long way to reconcile some poeple with 4th edition. But maybe I am missing all kinds of problems.

 

[Jasperak]

I think that would be wrongbadfun since the NPC PC would not be balanced with the PCs.

 

[bagger245]

There we go again with the balancing amongst PCs... no wonder 4th ed will never be retro

 

[Blair Goatsblood]

It would be good for a Beer and Pretzel dungeon bash or skirmish game. Like those big dungeon crawls at cons.

 

[ExploderWizard]

If the player had a good time with the character and others might too then go ahead. Balance with everyone else in the group is only a problem as long those playing see it as a problem. If everyone had fun playing thier characters the game was a success.

 

[Agamon]

If the player is having fun, does the ever precious "balance" even matter? While I don't personally see how PCs are more complicated in 4e (well, maybe at the lowest levels, yeah, but above 5th level, there's not much comparison), I say let them give it a try, why not. If it doesn't work out for them, let them remake it as a normal PC, no harm done.

 

[I'm A Banana]

YOU'RE BREAKING THE GAME!

More seriously, the big flaw in the idea is that it will make the powers of PC's work very oddly. If they only ever have three or four powers that don't grow and change with them, they won't have the full tactical arsenal to deal with some of the higher level threats that they might eventually face.

If you want a "simpler statblock," I'd recommend a different game mostly. T20 does a fine job of cutting out the mess and giving you a coherent skeleton, and if you're doing 3e or PF, Unearthed Arcana has the "three class" rules that are pretty okay for it. E6 also should keep things at a low level of complexity.

But 4e's stance is that the complexity is a good thing, so it was built with the complexity in mind.

If you go simpler, the basic problem you'll run into is either that the party won't be able to handle every monster, or that the DM won't be able to use certain monsters.

How big of a problem this is depends mostly on how complex you like your combats.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm assuming you mean using the NPC rules in the DMG, right?

Well...

The NPC rules are close enough to the PC rules for most things that there would be little difference. Assuming your only going completely by the book, the PC would have...

1.) One less At-Will
2.) Only one encounter, daily, and utility power, abet at the highest level. If paragon and epic, he'd gain one-two extra powers, but he'd be 2-3 powers behind his PC companions.
3.) Only ONE Healing Surge per tier!
4.) A nebulous "bonus" to hit, damage, AC, and defenses, which replaces magical gear and feats.
5.) NO FEATS
6.) Only two skills (rather than the typical 4 or more)
7.) No access to paragon paths or epic destinies.
8.) More HP than his equal level contemporaries. (Typically 8/level + con)
9.) No action points

Potential problems really arise from his lack of healing surges, poor customization due to lack of feats, paragons and epics, a lot less potential powers, and his "NPC bonus" would make acquiring treasure wonky (as he wouldn't "need" any, and only the most powerful treasure would break his max plus cap)

If you were running a one-shot or a limited run (as he did with an NPC) I'd say no problem, but I'd wager he'd fall behind quickly and probably be splat after a few combats.

 

[Asmor]

I've got a player's girlfriend running what is essentially a monster I designed. I tweaked it a bit (e.g. including the number of healing surges and listing the surge value), but aside from that her PC is basically just a normal monster. It's got 2 at-will abilities, 2 recharge abilities, and a daily.

She finds it a lot easier than running a full-fledged PC, as she had before. As a side bonus, she also gets significantly more HP than she would have as a PC.

 

[Taralan]

I'm assuming you mean using the NPC rules in the DMG, right?

Well...
[...]

Assuming your only going completely by the book, the PC would have...

1.) One less At-Will
2.) Only one encounter, daily, and utility power, abet at the highest level. If paragon and epic, he'd gain one-two extra powers, but he'd be 2-3 powers behind his PC companions.
3.) Only ONE Healing Surge per tier!
4.) A nebulous "bonus" to hit, damage, AC, and defenses, which replaces magical gear and feats.
5.) NO FEATS
6.) Only two skills (rather than the typical 4 or more)
7.) No access to paragon paths or epic destinies.
8.) More HP than his equal level contemporaries. (Typically 8/level + con)
9.) No action points

...

If you were running a one-shot or a limited run (as he did with an NPC) I'd say no problem, but I'd wager he'd fall behind quickly and probably be splat after a few combats.

Humm looking at the list we see that a few of these would obviously need to be modified. I suppose hit points and healing surges are the easiest, but some of the others are somewhat problematic, such as the skills. Maybe all that is needed is to keep the power structure of NPC (and perhaps the lack of feats) and for the rest just use the stats of a PC ...