PC Problem

[Kzach]

I was wondering if there is a better way of doing the grid system and all. Currently we're using Heroscape as everything. It seems good enough but, I was wondering if there was an easier way. Perhaps there's a program I could use instead? I'm currently using my laptop for a lot of the records, such as keeping track of the HP and such.

There are lots of ways. Having said that, I'd kill to have enough Heroscape to model outdoor combat.

 

[~EE~]

There are lots of ways. Having said that, I'd kill to have enough Heroscape to model outdoor combat.

I only do basics. Flat plane, usually a big square, unless it's a cave or such. If it's too big I usually only RP it out. I was hoping for something for in villages or outside combat to make it easier on everyone and give a mapout

 

[Doug McCrae]

I have a PC who's attempting to pretty much be a diplomat. He's a bard who's whoring out his Diplomacy and bluff skills so that he can tell everyone, including other PCs, what to do, think, and say. How can I stop this without telling him straight out no?

Why can't you tell him straight out no? It's the best solution. He's totally in the wrong here, and you're right. He's making the game less fun for the other players. No one likes having their PC mind controlled by another PC. Don't beat about the bush. Be clear. Be honest. You have very good reasons for not letting him diplomacize/bluff everything.

 

[~EE~]

I want to let him be a charismatic bard if he wants to. You know, being able to talk his way out of everything, etc. but, I don't want him ruining the game for everyone by dissolving encounters through talk. I'm going to attempt to do a lot of RP later on after they get out of their situation and such but, until then it's going to be mostly fighting.

 

[Oryan77]

Keep in mind, the skills are just a tool to use to work out situations in game. Use common sense and try to convince your buddy to use common sense. It doesn't make sense to me when players expect to use the social skills as mind controlling powers.

I don't care how well someone in real life thinks they are lying to me. There is no magic roll of the dice that will make me believe them against my will....we do have free thought. It should be the same in-game. If a player doesn't believe what another player or NPC says, or does not want to do something just because of what he said, no roll of the dice should ever force their PC to believe it or obey.

All the social skills are there for is to resolve a situation if you need help resolving it, or to help express a situation better than you are able to do it via roleplaying. I may not be a good liar, but if my PC is a good liar, then the bluff check should only be used to describe how well I am able to sound convincing. The DM tells the other characters that what I'm saying sounds really convincing or not convincing at all...it is still up to the PCs to determine if their final judgment call. It should work the same way for the NPCs too.

To illustrate this to your buddy, ask him this, "Would you be ok if another PC always beat you in a social skill check and you were forced to do what he says even though you know there is no way in hell your PC would ever think like that?" I really doubt he'd be ok with that if he was on the receiving end. The social skills simply aren't supposed to be used in that way. They are not mind controlling powers.

 

[chriton227]

I want to let him be a charismatic bard if he wants to. You know, being able to talk his way out of everything, etc. but, I don't want him ruining the game for everyone by dissolving encounters through talk. I'm going to attempt to do a lot of RP later on after they get out of their situation and such but, until then it's going to be mostly fighting.

Remember that Diplomacy during an encounter is slooooow. It usually takes 10 full rounds, or you can rush it to 1 full round action if you take a -10 penalty. Seeing how the opponents will frequently be hostile, he would have to have an extremely high skill bonus to be able to shift them to friendly in one round (would need a natural 20 with a +25 skill bonus. As far as using bluff in combat, about the limit of what I would allow without requiring he spend several rounds would be a feint to get combat advantage or maybe a bluff to make the enemy believe that he is less of a thread and that they should focus on the more dangerous threats. Now sometimes that may backfire, some enemies might prefer an easy target...

 

[~EE~]

Remember that Diplomacy during an encounter is slooooow. It usually takes 10 full rounds, or you can rush it to 1 full round action if you take a -10 penalty. Seeing how the opponents will frequently be hostile, he would have to have an extremely high skill bonus to be able to shift them to friendly in one round (would need a natural 20 with a +25 skill bonus. As far as using bluff in combat, about the limit of what I would allow without requiring he spend several rounds would be a feint to get combat advantage or maybe a bluff to make the enemy believe that he is less of a thread and that they should focus on the more dangerous threats. Now sometimes that may backfire, some enemies might prefer an easy target...

What's your guy's usually DCs for enemies against dip/intimidate?

 

[Dross]

Bluff and diplomacy are useful, but you still can't make people do what you say just because you say so.

One thing to note, when diplomacy makes someone your trusted friend, there is no reason that someone who would sacrifice their sibling would not stab you in the back if it suited them.

I have a quote in my house rules about Dip:
Assassin: My master has decreed that you are to die a horrible lingering death, and I am to bring him your head.
PC with high Dip skill: I'll convince him not to kill me.
Assassin: I am sorry, but I will not go against my master. However, I promise to make your death quick and as painless as possible.

 

[~EE~]

See that's the thing. He doesn't get it when I wont let him Dip people into doing things that would go against their core morals. Such as a paladin raping small children. Extreme example but, I would be surprised if he wouldn't be mad if I failed his roll.

And BTW he's going to be putting almost all of his skill points into bluff and dip.

 

[Kzach]

See that's the thing. He doesn't get it when I wont let him Dip people into doing things that would go against their core morals. Such as a paladin raping small children. Extreme example but, I would be surprised if he wouldn't be mad if I failed his roll.

Some people you just can't game with. They can be fine out of a game, but in a game they turn into a-holes. Seems like this dude is one of those people. If I was you and wanted to keep him as a friend, I'd stop gaming with him.