PC threatening PC. What to do?

[On Puget Sound]

If you want a storyline that allows for a reconciliation, there's nothing like an imminent threat.

As the paladin is riding off, a huge dragon swoops down and attacks the clerics. It's clearly more than they can handle alone. If he really is a paladin, there's only one thing to do, ride back and save their sorry butts. This could be the example that redeems the now-evil cleric, who could atone by apologizing and acknowledging his own unworthiness to lead. Or he could remain wilful. and the paladin would leave after all, but on very different and less-defeated terms.

This latter scene, with the cleric always knowing and resenting that when the chips were down the pally was a true hero, and with the paladin aware that his former comrade has turned to the dark side and must never get his hands on that artifact, sets up a really dramatic rivalry for alternating sessions. Each pair would find a couple of new adventuring companions (the other players, with new characters), or the cleric becomes an NPC recurring villain who knows their weaknesses and strategies.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I'd like to know why a Lawful Good Paladin and this cleric ended up trying to kill each other over leading the party? What was the motivation?

 

[SnowleopardVK]

I'd like to know why a Lawful Good Paladin and this cleric ended up trying to kill each other over leading the party? What was the motivation?

The paladin basically only ended up in a fight over it because she got attacked by the cleric. Up until that point the cleric was trying to order her around and she was essentially just responding with "I already have a master and he's given me my orders, so no I'm not taking orders from you", which the cleric apparently didn't agree with. The cleric believed herself to be the strongest member of the party and concluded that because of that the others all had to obey her... In a literal sense of "obey". In other words "you do exactly what I tell you to do when I tell you to do it" more so than "I'm party leader so everyone runs major decisions through me")

 

[malcolypse]

Lots of good advice flying around, on every side.

My two cents: This should be resolved by the characters, but you could nudge the players. I'm of the opinion that a pally needs to always be able to be the bigger man, in every situation, so I'd work on that player first.

"Your character is unwilling to abandon the quest, unwilling to strike down the cleric while he's asleep, and realizes that a fair fight would probably be pretty unfair especially if you smite the now CE cleric, so you need to either lop his head off or come up with another way of resolving this."

I would probably suggest a few solutions to the player. Such as:

1. Pray to the offenders God, explaining that while you don't agree with his teachings, you have no quarrel with his followers unless they would stand in the way of your quest. A true and peerless servant of another Deity asking for help in order to preserve the life of One's followers might turn the head of said Deity enough to get a Divine Intervention.

2. Beat him like he was demon. Beat him until he's barely able to move and then back up and let him heal. Then you beat him again. Beat him and let him heal until your beatin' hand has blisters that have little blisters on them. Beat him until he can't heal himself any more. Then you ask him if he thinks that he is your better. Suggest that neither of you should be leader and hand it over to the sorcerer. If he and the sorcerer agree, then you lay on hands and continue the quest. If the sorcerer agrees and the cleric doesn't, you send him off to rest for an evening. When he walks out of his room in the morning, the beatings begin anew. This continues until he realizes that a paladin will win a real fight or dies.

3. Detect him. If he's CE now, chop him into chum and toss him overboard.

For the cleric, I'd say that if the player has never been interested in leading before, then this may be a step up for them wanting to take point on a game but not having the experience with leading a party without the violence that seems to be their preference. Suggest that perhaps this character isn't the best leader for the party and promise them a chance for some great role-playing that will give them an opportunity to work on learning the skills that will make their next PC a great choice for party leader.

Personally, I wouldn't trust a party that would follow someone who is willing to smash an allies head in from behind over something so trivial to mow my lawn, much less save the world, so I wouldn't even work on the idea that the cleric should be the party leader.

Are the two clerics followers of the same God? Are they related? Are they of the same alignment? Why would anyone good aligned choose to stick with an attempted murderer when they have any other option? Do you care who comes out of this on top? Have you considered that if the ship sinks, then another group of adventurers could easily be put together to take up the quest by the original party, from where they left off.

Alternately, if I was sending a group of adventurers out to save the day, I might consider sending out multiple groups from the get-go. One group is feasted and briefed and out the door by tuesday, and then the next group shows up, is feasted and briefed and on their way by friday. One by sea, one by land, and one by air, just in case the second batch goes all "Donner Party" on each other as well.

 

[Kzach]

In other words "you do exactly what I tell you to do when I tell you to do it" more so than "I'm party leader so everyone runs major decisions through me")

Oh wow. Ok, that's going beyond roleplaying and way over the line of asshattery. Is this guy always a problem player like this? 'cause it's rare that people are like that in isolation and if that's the case, I'd want to have as little to do with him as possible to the point of not even socialising with him in any context, let alone RPG's.

I heard a saying the other day, "A drunken man's actions are the sober man's thoughts," and I believe this phenomenon happens in RPG's as well. In essence, people's inner-most asshat comes out to play because they feel less threatened by the repercussions which normally limit them.

 

[SnowleopardVK]

Oh wow. Ok, that's going beyond roleplaying and way over the line of asshattery. Is this guy always a problem player like this?

Not at all. Her normal play style with pretty much all characters is to sit at the back and never say anything during any and all social situations and step forwards only when fights arise to use her always extremely combat-optimized (far more than anyone else she tends to play with) builds to kill monsters and enemies.

 

[Scorponox]

I myself am pretty new to DMing, only having a year's experience. Fortunately, this hasn't happened to my group, but if it did, you could always use a deus ex machina on them.

Basically, what I'd do is have some of the townsfolk start talking about it, then it eventually gets back to the superior officers of the Cleric and Paladin. They would then sit them both down and tell them in no uncertain terms that the mission is too critical to be hamstrung by in-fighting, and they need to get their act together, or there will be severe repercussions. If the fighting continues after that, the high priest or whoever is in charge can pray to the deity to take away the spells of the offending player. Because the Cleric attacked first, the officer in charge of the cleric would tell her she is being fined 10% of her earnings for the next x months.

Also, instead of splitting the party, I'd just say to the offending players, "Ok, make new characters, I have an interesting idea, and I will use these as NPCs in the story. And turn it into a "choose your own adventure" module via email. Like ask them via email what your Paladin is planning, and then make scenarios where they have to choose. (There may be an evil wizard in the fortress....does Paladin abandon the mission to go after the wizard, or continue to seek revenge against the Cleric?) And for the Cleric - Cleric finds out Paladin is chasing after the wizard, do you follow, or try to complete the mission before he does. They would essentially have two characters in the campaign world, but only be in control of the original Paladin and Cleric as NPCs. And you can keep your main session with new characters. Eventually, you can have the two original characters fight it out, to the death, and that will bring closure to both characters. The winner can then choose which character they want as their "main" one, and the DM can NPC the other for more story hooks in the future.

This will make it so they are still both in control of the destinies of their characters, and I don't think they'll feel slighted if both their characters are still part of the story, but for practicality sakes, you'd like to have everyone adventure together.

 

[Kzach]

Not at all. Her normal play style with pretty much all characters is to sit at the back and never say anything during any and all social situations and step forwards only when fights arise to use her always extremely combat-optimized (far more than anyone else she tends to play with) builds to kill monsters and enemies.

And you see this as a good sign? I just see that as more of a problem. So she uses her one opportunity to come out and roleplay to dominate everyone in the group and demand that they follow her or she'll kill them (with her highly combat optimised character). Not only that but she takes it so far that it breaks the party up and she does it over what appears to be an issue that doesn't even justify the action, ie. she was looking for an excuse to crap all over everyone else's game.

Again, this just screams, "Get out of Dodge!" to me.

Out of curiosity, who is she to you? GF? Are you interested? I ask 'cause it seems that you're coming to her defence and making excuses for her rather than seeing her as a troublemaker.

 

[jasper]

I think the player playing the cleric is trouble. But I was able to handle similiar situations like this.
Group Caller is Bob, a player. He makes the decision to go left, right, straight or run away. Talk to the merchant ETC.
The Party Leader is PC in charge of the situation which can be pass to another PC depending on situation. In this case I would allow the Cleric to be in charge of combat and she can give commands to the group. In social situations I would let the Paladin be in charge.

 

[the Jester]

Group Caller is Bob, a player. He makes the decision to go left, right, straight or run away. Talk to the merchant ETC.
The Party Leader is PC in charge of the situation which can be pass to another PC depending on situation. In this case I would allow the Cleric to be in charge of combat and she can give commands to the group. In social situations I would let the Paladin be in charge.

As the dm, you should not be deciding party dynamics. It's up to the pcs to select their own leader. Telling the cleric she can only lead in battle is extreme metagaming.