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PC's always ruining your adventures with magic?
- Thread starter Grishnak
- Start date
The point
the whole point of this post was that being a dm does it piss you off when the high level cleric and wizard come against that chaos beast theve been working to kill all adventure and you role infront of the players and the cleric casts destruction and the choas beast fails its save and wham gone dead finito all that hard work of building up the hype and its dead in 1 spell. doesnt that annoy you in the slightest instead of finding out that the choas beast cannot be harmed by elemental damage but physical and divine (which the destruction just happens to be) ?
the whole point of this post was that being a dm does it piss you off when the high level cleric and wizard come against that chaos beast theve been working to kill all adventure and you role infront of the players and the cleric casts destruction and the choas beast fails its save and wham gone dead finito all that hard work of building up the hype and its dead in 1 spell. doesnt that annoy you in the slightest instead of finding out that the choas beast cannot be harmed by elemental damage but physical and divine (which the destruction just happens to be) ?
Brown Jenkin
First Post
These are two seperate things. Many people object to save or die spells because they cut the encounter off too quickly. Whether casters use spells to solve other problems to bypass the obstacles leading up to the final encounter is another. The problem that this poll seemed to refer to was such things as using locate object to track down where a captured party member is hidden in the castle instead of questioning all the staff and following clues that the DM had laid out.
While I won't go into save or die, using the other spells to thier fullest is not something you should punish. The reason that people play casters is that they want to use spells of all kinds and that includes fly and teleport. The problem seems to me to be more of the DM not anticipating alternate solutions to problems and being upset when players don't solve the problem the way he wanted them to.
While I won't go into save or die, using the other spells to thier fullest is not something you should punish. The reason that people play casters is that they want to use spells of all kinds and that includes fly and teleport. The problem seems to me to be more of the DM not anticipating alternate solutions to problems and being upset when players don't solve the problem the way he wanted them to.
Hackenslash
First Post
Sorry Dude....I don't think players spoil anything as long as they had fun !!!
Hello all,
I would have to agree with the very first reply to this thread, posted by "Nifft". Players should be allowed to use the spells and or abilities they have to solve the problem. At the end of the day it is indeed the resourcefull player that thinks ahead, and spends time reasearching rules and takes an interest and has the spells prepared in advance to combat puzzles or traps etc...I do not think that it is necessarily a Tragedy, that the players cleverly used a spell to get out of a situation and should not be penailised for it just becasue the DM did not think about it first. Nor do I agree with "You Can't do that"..."Why"...."Because I said so" theory. See my post, about a month ago in DnD Rules re: Wall of ice used as a raft, for example. As a DM you just have to work around it and if possible challenge them in other ways where spells will not work properly or just can't solve the riddle in question. Also don't be afraid to just set the problem and let the PC's worry about the how to solve it. It somtimes does not pay to have adventures too pre-planned and co-ordinated in advance as you can never tell how players will re-act and may surprise you with a clever solution or different type of use for a spell. Don't get upset with players for using spells to get out of problems, create a more flexable adventure to allow for this and then you won't be disappointed if they solve it in 5 mins or if they take 5 hours. I used to set up contingency plans in my campaigns for this very reason, or I would rely on a randomly generated encounter table if the PC's got too far too quickly. But in all fairness it is not an easy job being a DM and we are here to have fun too, so maybe don't take it so badly or seriously and go with the flow. Relish in the PC's triamphs as well as their monumental (and they are more often) failures. They are having fun and it's all been created by you, that should be enough of an ego boost in itself, it is for me when I DM a campaign. Hope this helps and see ya soon Brutha...ZAL
Hello all,
I would have to agree with the very first reply to this thread, posted by "Nifft". Players should be allowed to use the spells and or abilities they have to solve the problem. At the end of the day it is indeed the resourcefull player that thinks ahead, and spends time reasearching rules and takes an interest and has the spells prepared in advance to combat puzzles or traps etc...I do not think that it is necessarily a Tragedy, that the players cleverly used a spell to get out of a situation and should not be penailised for it just becasue the DM did not think about it first. Nor do I agree with "You Can't do that"..."Why"...."Because I said so" theory. See my post, about a month ago in DnD Rules re: Wall of ice used as a raft, for example. As a DM you just have to work around it and if possible challenge them in other ways where spells will not work properly or just can't solve the riddle in question. Also don't be afraid to just set the problem and let the PC's worry about the how to solve it. It somtimes does not pay to have adventures too pre-planned and co-ordinated in advance as you can never tell how players will re-act and may surprise you with a clever solution or different type of use for a spell. Don't get upset with players for using spells to get out of problems, create a more flexable adventure to allow for this and then you won't be disappointed if they solve it in 5 mins or if they take 5 hours. I used to set up contingency plans in my campaigns for this very reason, or I would rely on a randomly generated encounter table if the PC's got too far too quickly. But in all fairness it is not an easy job being a DM and we are here to have fun too, so maybe don't take it so badly or seriously and go with the flow. Relish in the PC's triamphs as well as their monumental (and they are more often) failures. They are having fun and it's all been created by you, that should be enough of an ego boost in itself, it is for me when I DM a campaign. Hope this helps and see ya soon Brutha...ZAL
Grishnak
First Post
Being the poster and assuming people think I was unhappy that it's happened to me before and I've gotten annoyed with spells, I haven't! I wasn't unhappy that pc's use spells to get around any of my plans, in some cases I set it up so they had to use them. I just made an observation that I've seen it in my own campaign and the campaign I play in with a large group of experienced players where it is also used a lot. Now I'm not saying don't use spells which are designed to help you but I do say don't always rely on them like a great deal of people do, I've seen players become irritated towards a dm due to the fact that they haven't had their own way with a spell. In future dont rely on a spell as they wont always be there!
What would you as players say if it was an extremely low magic campaign where you couldn't use the spells?
Dm's always use the disturbance of rest to stop spell casters regaining spells, and my way was only different in the fact they couldn't cast within 1 mile of the unborn child they were protecting. They were always free to leave the quest as I don't set any adventure in stone. D&D is about choices for the pc's, it's not about rails to sit on. If that was the case go play baldurs gate.
This is the now nice hollow adventure faced by the party and yes it could have been altered but as I stated from the begining of the adventure once the child made it to the safety of the location the undead following them were powerless and would die after a certain period of time or could be defeated earlier a lot easier. So honestly what would you prefer from a dm just turn what was told to the players using a spell for the infomation into a blatent lie and a lot of arguments later on.
Anyway this will be my last post on this subject I think I was right in my adventure, the group had fun the adventure was completed and I got a point across at the same time. I will use incidents like this again as it also falls into another posts argument regarding players armour and not being able to face a threat without it, players are not always fighting at full capabilities as are monsters!
What would you as players say if it was an extremely low magic campaign where you couldn't use the spells?
Dm's always use the disturbance of rest to stop spell casters regaining spells, and my way was only different in the fact they couldn't cast within 1 mile of the unborn child they were protecting. They were always free to leave the quest as I don't set any adventure in stone. D&D is about choices for the pc's, it's not about rails to sit on. If that was the case go play baldurs gate.
This is the now nice hollow adventure faced by the party and yes it could have been altered but as I stated from the begining of the adventure once the child made it to the safety of the location the undead following them were powerless and would die after a certain period of time or could be defeated earlier a lot easier. So honestly what would you prefer from a dm just turn what was told to the players using a spell for the infomation into a blatent lie and a lot of arguments later on.
Anyway this will be my last post on this subject I think I was right in my adventure, the group had fun the adventure was completed and I got a point across at the same time. I will use incidents like this again as it also falls into another posts argument regarding players armour and not being able to face a threat without it, players are not always fighting at full capabilities as are monsters!
To me, the player who chooses to play a spell-casting class and then chooses the best spells to solve the problem (whatever that problem might be) *is* using his "own gray matter".
Personally, I've been delighted with some creative uses of magic by the players in my game, even when that did cut the encounter shorter than anticipated (and lead to the issue of what to do with fallen, but not dead, enemies). The way I see it, clever use of magic to overcome problems is exactly what the spellcaster is *supposed* to do, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Might as well randomly turn the fighter's weapons into rubber and negate all strength bonuses because you're tired of the melee tanks ruling the front line in combat.
Personally, I've been delighted with some creative uses of magic by the players in my game, even when that did cut the encounter shorter than anticipated (and lead to the issue of what to do with fallen, but not dead, enemies). The way I see it, clever use of magic to overcome problems is exactly what the spellcaster is *supposed* to do, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Might as well randomly turn the fighter's weapons into rubber and negate all strength bonuses because you're tired of the melee tanks ruling the front line in combat.
Ravellion
serves Gnome Master
This article by Monte Cook drastically improved my DMing:
http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly16.html
And basically, yes, embrace magic on the whole. One adventure where the mages can't use their spells effectively? Sure. But not all the time, or perhaps not even more than once or twice.
Rav
http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly16.html
And basically, yes, embrace magic on the whole. One adventure where the mages can't use their spells effectively? Sure. But not all the time, or perhaps not even more than once or twice.
Rav
I've a campaign world in cooking where most of the population is afraid of magic... meaning all the commoners will mob anyone who casts magic.
So anybody who wants to be a spell slinger is going to have to cope with being devious about how he uses his power. No fireballing the village in this place... they'll meet the posse from hell after that!
So anybody who wants to be a spell slinger is going to have to cope with being devious about how he uses his power. No fireballing the village in this place... they'll meet the posse from hell after that!
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