PC's can't take a hint

[silentspace]

Sounds like they don't understand how powerful they are compared to their opponents. This is something that more knowledgeable players take for granted. So one way to look at it is to be happy that your players aren't metagaming.

If that's the case, you really haven't spelled anything out to them. Telling them that giants are walking by is meaningless unless they know what giants are. You can really spell it out. Tell them that the giant looks like it could crush the toughest character with just one blow. Tell them that there's no way anyone could engage in melee with the giant without the giant getting a shot off first. A shot that will probably kill the character. Give them real hints.

 

[Numion]

Gobbo,

I hate to tell you but stop coddleing your player. Your campagain will not die if they die,

The death of a player is always serious. Good players are hard to find. It might be especially difficult if your whole group dies.

 

[Gobbo]

Two of the players know the game well. The other two are quite new and don't anything know about wraiths and giants other than how I describe them.

The party consists of:
Rgr3/Clr3/Windwalker1 - the most experienced player
Monk7 - who thinks that he can kill anything
Wiz4/Rog3 - newbie
Rgr7 - newbie

One problem they face is the lack of a real wizard. A couple of fireballs, flame arrows for the party and some scorching rays could have allowed them to take on 2 frost giants (MAYBE)

Usually the monk runs ahead out into the open and grapples (+17 grapple bonus, gained through several feats), which I think is a bit out of hand. Any sort of plan that they made before hand is usually forgotten. Several times he has almost bought the farm becuase of this reckless tactic.

I guess the best thing to do is give them a real lesson, let them find out things the hard way.

Thanks for everyones help.

 

[Gobbo]

Two of the players know the game well. The other two are quite new and don't anything know about wraiths and giants other than how I describe them.

The party consists of:
Rgr3/Clr3/Windwalker1 - the most experienced player
Monk7 - who thinks that he can kill anything
Wiz4/Rog3 - newbie
Rgr7 - newbie
Ftr2/Clr5 -NPC

One problem they face is the lack of a real wizard. A couple of fireballs, flame arrows for the party and some scorching rays could have allowed them to take on 2 frost giants (MAYBE)

Usually the monk runs ahead out into the open and grapples (+17 grapple bonus, gained through several feats), which I think is a bit out of hand. Any sort of plan that they made before hand is usually forgotten. Several times he has almost bought the farm becuase of this reckless tactic.

I guess the best thing to do is give them a real lesson, let them find out things the hard way.

Thanks for everyones help.

 

[billd91]

Two of the players know the game well. The other two are quite new and don't anything know about wraiths and giants other than how I describe them.

<snip>

Usually the monk runs ahead out into the open and grapples (+17 grapple bonus, gained through several feats), which I think is a bit out of hand. Any sort of plan that they made before hand is usually forgotten. Several times he has almost bought the farm becuase of this reckless tactic.

I guess the best thing to do is give them a real lesson, let them find out things the hard way.

Thanks for everyones help.

From what I read at the top of th thread, it looks like there is an out to doing a TPK. They've already seen the giants bringing in slaves, right? So rather than just kill them, capture, and enslave them. That gives them a sharp lesson and keeps the PCs alive to try to escape.

 

[Kichwas]

Don't coddle them. A capture might come across as coddling if the NPCs go out of their way to do it.

Being hobgoblins if the monk manages to grapple some hapless fool outside the gates, just have a whole squad of hobgoblin archers rain down arrows on them both - slaughtering the monk and the fool together.

Remember that hobgoblins are just as smart as humans (same int and wis), but better organized (lawful). They should be very efficient and lethal. Don't coddle anybody, and let the players learn that you can bit whatever you want, but you might not be able to chew, let alone swallow...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Don't coddle them. A capture might come across as coddling if the NPCs go out of their way to do it.

So don't have them go out of their way.

If TPK happens, it happens, but usually people end up unconscious and dying or incapacitated rather than dead, dead, dead. Don't have the monsters kill them after incapacitation.

A couple of characters will most likely die to unfortunate shots, but some will survive as prisoners. Some may even get the hint and run away.

Keeping a core of surviving characters will probably be enough to keep the story and campaign alive.

 

[Agback]

Bad News: Players can very, very easily leave your intended "plot" by the wayside, and get themselves into a whole world of crap by wandering into trouble that thy are not capable of handling.

So...you need to learn to improvise....

The key to successful improv GMing is to let incident arise as character responds to situation, (ie. concentrate on the situation, let the plot emerge in extemporary collaboration with the character-players). When you are setting up a situation to produce a plot, remmember that you need a conflict and also a crucible.

Conflict between the protagonist and the antagonist produces a repulsion between them. They are naturally inclined to avoid the conflict. And so you need to provide some motivating to keep them together and slugging it out. (This is actually even more important in RPGs than in literature, where it only seems as though the writer has no control over his characters.)

GMs and D&D writers designing linear adventures have usually relied on the lure of experience points and treasure to keep PCs' noses to the wheel. This doesn't work in an open world, because if the conflict becomes intense the PCs look around somewhere else for exp and treasure. The only way to keep them on track is to make the rest of the world even more dangerous than the adventure, which doesn't make the characters satisfyingly heroic.

Re-read some of your favourite adventure stories. Ask yourself "Why doesn't the protagonist simply let it drop?" Make notes. Incorporate such crucibles into your campaign situations.

Tension arises when the protagonist is subjected to forces that draw or push him simultaneously in opposited directions, with irresistable strength. Such 'pressure', or 'dilemmas' are of the essence of plot situations.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Painfully]

The DM should certainly do his part to make sure the PCs have an idea what they're up against.

Use NPCs, wise men, rumors, grandfather's tales, or other anecdotal information to help the PCs know when they are dealing with something powerful, or possibly out of their league. If there is a dragon on a mountain, let them hear a story about a great paladin that met his doom there. If there is a region filled with undead, mention rumors about an evil lich, or an artifact that replenishes negative energy being at the very core of the region. If you really want to be blunt, leave a massacre behind of other adventurers.

In effect, don't let your players wander into something without a clue.

The conflict for the players might come when they start thinking, "hey! XP and treasure, that way!" And while they might be right, you need to make them think of all the reasons they should avoid it until the right time comes. Be sure to give them interesting options for challenges that aren't as deadly as well. Sometimes players will be attracted to what is most interesting, rather than what is an "appropriate challenge" for their level.

 

[evileeyore]

Let the characters die. More blood for the Blood God, more skulls for the Skull Throne...

TTFN

EvilE