PCs using their abilities - a favor to the party?

[Kahuna Burger]

I like to play Clerics that actually and genuinely believe in their god, and in their gods mythos. And as such,

Forgot this... I play clerics who believe in their (good) gods (or philosophy for the Mortalists) and as such give healing to those who need it and have worked towards compatible goals. Genuine belief in a god or philosophy does not need to translate to treating those without that belief as lesser beings - unless your particular god is a particularly insular and selfish one. Your way of playing clerics is not better roleplaying than playing a cleric who gives the old "Well, my god believes in you, and is pleased with what you have done today," schtick. It falls into the creating a character part of my above rules, not the playing your character one.

(My warrior cleric of Kord was fairly evangelical, but would have never even considered withholding healing from someone who had fought well for the side of good, or consider Kord in need of buttering up.)

 

[Nifft]

I played an evangelical cleric once. He gave people a hard time unless they were already converts. I don't think he ever actually withheld healing, but he did his best to sell his religion at every opportunity.

The fact that we were playing in Faerun, and there were actually spells which gave better benefit to targets of the same faith, had something to do with it too, ISTR.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kae'Yoss]

It's a combination of different factors:

One is people being annoying, the other is a lack of farsight.

Let me explain the latter one: Healing is probably the most immediate form of help you can give: You use a spell, someone's numbers on the sheet get better for good (or until he's hurt again).

They don't quite see how the fighter standing right there all the time helps you by soaking damage. How the wizard's hex prevents enemies from hurting you. And so on.

Sometimes it's only the latter thing, like when you have some newcomers who have to get their mind around the idea of a game where you don't try to win against the others. But it's usually the former, accompanied by the latter (often it's deliberately putting on blinkers. They know they're being shortsighted and do it on purpose).



I had one cleric-player doing it once. It was the guy who can't help but play annoying characters. He's bad at masking his own traits.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I don't think other members of the party have a right to expect healing automatically if they don't pay at least lip service to the idea that the cleric serves a higher power, and that higher power deserves respect and veneration in return for favours.

Isn't this practically the definition of paying lip service -

"Yeah, yeah, the gods are great, gimme the healing already"

Ultimately the cleric has to do his job as a party member. If he goes too far down the missionary route he's going to find himself replaced with a wand of cure light wounds. Or a bard. Oh, the humiliation.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I had one cleric-player doing it once. It was the guy who can't help but play annoying characters. He's bad at masking his own traits.

It was the same in a game I played a long time ago. The player who took the most extreme worship-or-I-don't-heal-you position was the one who always found a way to be annoying, whether he was playing a cleric or not.

 

[AnonymousOne]

It was the same in a game I played a long time ago. The player who took the most extreme worship-or-I-don't-heal-you position was the one who always found a way to be annoying, whether he was playing a cleric or not.

Those kinds of players are likely to wake up with the Rogue's Short swords in his back...

 

[Stormborn]

No cleric should be in a party if his or her god would not want the members of that party healed. This means both that a) the person playing the cleric should have a reason for performing his or her role in the party and b) the other players should have PCs whose actions and attitudes do not make it difficult for the person playing the cleric to roleplay his or her PC. We are just about to end a campaing where I am playing a cleric (NG) of the Remover of Obstacles. The leader of the party is a CN battle sorcerer who, while he believes in gods, sees no reason to worship gods. However, he is all about being free and stopping people who abuse their power. My cleric can support this so no healing is ever with held. The Cleric supports the Sorc because he is doing the will of the Cleric's God, even if he wouldn't admit it or even like thinking about it. The Sorc doesnt antagonize the Cleric because the Cleric provides a useful service and basically doesnt try and force him to convert. The two are in fact friends.

EDIT: It all comes down to playing a Party rather than playing a Collection of Unique Individuals. If concepts are agreed upon before play begins then there is no question of how these things work out in game.

 

[boerngrim]

Hi
I once played in a game where a player with a cleric of Tyr expected the other pcs to tithe to Tyr in return for healing. He would keep a list of all the healing he did during each session and come to collect at the end. As was mentioned above, not surprisingly this guy tended to be annoying and non-cooperative with all of his characters. He always insisted, "That's what this character would do! I'm just roleplaying properly."
Thanks

 

[William drake]

But wouldn't it go the other way too? Should a cleric expect the wizard to cast grease on him to help him get out of a grapple automaticly if he doesn't at least pay lip service to the idea that the wizard has devoted his considerable intelligence to learning, and that such dedication and knowledge deserves respect? Should a fighter waste his hit points on some stuck up cleric who says "yeah, yeah, your years of training were super hard, now get in front of that monster so I don't take an AoO when I do this flamestrike."?

The cleric's abilities aren't actually (that much) stronger than the rest of the party's. \QUOTE]



Are you kidding. They heal, bring back the dead? And consult with Gods..which, in this world, proves that they are THERE... its not a qustion of faith. Its fact. Of course their power is greater, maybe not stat wise, or, as many players think, in their ability to deal-out-da-damage. But, come on. Their's is a silent power.


Now to the point.
I think the point most people are trying to make is that most games are set up so that a Cleric is NEEDED, needed in the sense that if everyone want's to live and have a good time without the fear of losing a limb or having to sit around while that leg heals doing nothing. I mean who is the character that is needed more than a Cleric? Who? Who gives as much? No one.
Theif-can get by without one with the right wizard or fighter.
wizard-can get around not having one...things might take longer, but can be done.
fighter-yes, combat is not always the way to solve the prob.
And so on and so on.
*Now I know what your sayin* the same thing applies if there is no cleric in the party, but there just happens to be one in every village or town you go to or everyone happens to have healing items. The Healing is the factor, and the Cleric is the source in this case. So moving it from one thing to another is mote.

Another way to think about it is this. When sitting around the table figuring out who is going to play what...what is either the first thing to come to mind "Who's going to heal us?" or its the last thing "damn, no cleric. Alright...who's going to play one?"

Now, in game, this shouldn't be something put over the clerics head like he HAS to be the walking Med Pack, but, if its set up right there is no reason that he or she shouldn't be there to aid allies and frineds. But, if that is the type of party your playing, the one that you feel is using you...made you play the holy man just so that they wouldn't have to worry aroubt wounds, poisions, sickness, or death...don't play the cleric. Learn to get by without one...its tough, especially if you have a good Dm who knows alot about what can happen to you in a world rampit with desease, sickness, and injuries from doing some of the most common things. But it can be done. And, when you get hurt you learn quickly not to do some of those foolish things you once did. It also makes Combat that much more Real.


As you can see. Im for a Cleric Free Inviroment but sometimes I do allow healing..though in short number. RARE.

"Life is tough, hope you got a helment."

Game On.

 

[sniffles]

When I play a cleric, I generally proceed from the viewpoint that my cleric is a kind of missionary for her faith. She'll heal the other PCs whether or not they actually venerate her deity, because that demonstrates the strength, mercy and kindness of her god.

I usually play Good clerics of Good deities, though. I might take a different view if playing a Neutral cleric.

But I would still probably heal the other PCs whether or not they respect my deity, because I in turn would hope they will help me out when I need it.