PDFS--Of the WotC Court Case

[Vyvyan Basterd]

And since these lawsuits are specifically about pirating of PH2, it may be hard to determine how much money they lost, when by all accounts, PH2 is SOLD OUT!

But yeah, as others have mentioned, of those @3000 or less downloads, how many were done by folks that already had bought a physical copy?

I think the simplest point to make is that, assuming the 2,993 downloads of illegal pdfs is accurate, we know with reasonable assurance that those 2,993 people wanted a pdf copy of the PHB2 (if they didn't want it, why did they download it?) but did not pay for it. That is a direct loss. It does not matter if they would have paid for it. Nor does it matter if they paid for it in another format. 2,993 people allegedly stole an illegal copy instead of paying for it. It is cut and dry to me.

 

[Drkfathr1]

I think the simplest point to make is that, assuming the 2,993 downloads of illegal pdfs is accurate, we know with reasonable assurance that those 2,993 people wanted a pdf copy of the PHB2 (if they didn't want it, why did they download it?) but did not pay for it. That is a direct loss. It does not matter if they would have paid for it. Nor does it matter if they paid for it in another format. 2,993 people allegedly stole an illegal copy instead of paying for it. It is cut and dry to me.

Fair enough, but many of us don't see it as cut and dry.

Many of us don't see file sharing as theft either, but that can be debated endlessly.

 

[roguerouge]

Another example of a WotC blunder: They could have sold these lawsuit .pdfs for phat l00ts. Now, valuable information such as this is available free on the internet when they could have sold these at a dollar a pop. When will they join the 21st century!?

, obviously.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Fair enough, but many of us don't see it as cut and dry.

Many of us don't see file sharing as theft either, but that can be debated endlessly.

And I think that is a root problem with our society. People want things but are unwilling to pay for them. It may be going too far to call it Theft. But this attitude of Sharing other people's works and feeling entitled to do so through illegal means has caused this current problem. Yes, I am completely in agreement with 99.99% of posters here that WotC's reaction to the problem is completely off-base and will prove ineffective and I wish they had taken a different tactic. But the problem was caused by people rationalizing their illegal actions as ethical behavior. I'm sorry we all must suffer because some people cannot discern the difference between right and wrong.

 

[Eldragon]

While I think a program that scrubs out the watermarks given two PDFs to compare against would be quite easy. It would be MUCH easier to buy a PDF under a false name using a gift card or stolen credit card number. All from the convenience of a public WiFi location.

Personally I have a downloaded PDF for every hardcopy I own, since i don't like hauling 20+ books to every gaming session. I bring a USB flash drive with all my books and the 1 or 2 books I plan on using. Were those downloads illegal? Maybe, but since I own the book in question, it hardly matters.

 

[Drkfathr1]

And I think that is a root problem with our society. People want things but are unwilling to pay for them. It may be going too far to call it Theft. But this attitude of Sharing other people's works and feeling entitled to do so through illegal means has caused this current problem. Yes, I am completely in agreement with 99.99% of posters here that WotC's reaction to the problem is completely off-base and will prove ineffective and I wish they had taken a different tactic. But the problem was caused by people rationalizing their illegal actions as ethical behavior. I'm sorry we all must suffer because some people cannot discern the difference between right and wrong.

But see, the problem is who gets to decide unequivocally for everyone what's right and what's wrong?

I respect your right to feel the way you do, but honestly, we all have to realize that not everyone suscribes to the same values/morals/ethics.

It is illegal.

Immoral? By some standards. By all standards? Not by any means.

 

[Vascant]

After they win a civil case on the people, HOW difficult will it be for the "State" to go after them for a criminal case? They have already proved them guilty in case. That is basically an automatic conviction if you don't mess it up.

Incorrect..

It takes far less to get a civil case to award in your favor then to be convicted of a criminal case.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

But see, the problem is who gets to decide unequivocally for everyone what's right and what's wrong?

I respect your right to feel the way you do, but honestly, we all have to realize that not everyone suscribes to the same values/morals/ethics.

It is illegal.

Immoral? By some standards. By all standards? Not by any means.

I was going to say I never brought morality into the discussion and then I thought to educate myself. I see that ethics and morals are synonymous at times and each has a myriad of meanings.

My understanding was and the usage I perpetuate when I speak on the matter is that ethics are more absolute. Who gets to decide what is ethical behavior? Our society through its laws. So, to me, Illegal = Unethical.

My understanding and usage of immoral is much different and that is why I avoid using the term. Who decides what is immoral? The individual. That is why moral debates IMO are useless. To me, immoral does not equal illegal by necessity, nor does something being illegal mean it is automatically immoral.

So, under my personal definitions of ethical behavior I still hold that people downloading material illegally are acting in an unethical manner. But I geuss I could leave the term Unethical out of the discussion in the future and be clearer by using the term Illegal or explaining myself more clearly instead of using the term Unethical as a form of shorthand.

 

[Bleoberis De Ganis]

Also assuming that nobody who pirated still went out and bought a copy.

Also assuming that those that didn't were going to buy a copy even if a pdf wasn't available.

 

[Roger]

I ran one of the PDFs through an OCR. I haven't really checked it for accuracy, though.

A bit too long for a board post so I'm hosting it here:

Wizards v. Nolan and Osmena « Stirges Suck

I'll do the others if there's an outcry of demand for them.



Cheers,
Roger