Peak of D&D: the 1980s?

[Akrasia]

I have been under the impression for quite some time that, at least in terms of popularity, D&D enjoyed its peak during the 1980s.

This seemed to be confirmed in the recent CNN piece on D&D:

"The game peaked in the 1980s, but there are plenty of fans left. Some 4 million people play D&D regularly."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/10/16/dungeons.dragons.ap/index.html

Yet people on these boards have often disputed this claim, arguing that it is more popular now.

This quote from the recent National Review piece on D&D (http://www.nationalreview.com/miller/miller200410151029.asp) suggests that this might be the case: "More people play Dungeons & Dragons now than ever before," says Charles Ryan, D&D's brand manager. "Every year, we sell more copies of the Player's Handbook than we did during the 1980s."

No numbers are provided by Ryan -- and as a "brand manager" I would expect more than a little spin here.

Still, I am curious. Is there any hard data here?

I am still inclined to think that the 1980s marked the peak for D&D. (I am talking about "pen-and-paper" DnD and FRPGs here -- not all that computer stuff!)

 

[caudor]

Much hinges on what exactly we mean by peak: peak in profits, peak in public mind-share, peak in units sold, peak in news coverage (positive and negative), peak in number of active players, etc.

I'd speculate that in the life of a game that has been popular for 30 years, we have already seen a least a couple of peaks and valleys. The near demise of TSR was definately one of those valleys, so by today's measure I'm sure we are at another peak.

Is it as high as the peak in the early 80's? I'm not sure. Hopefully someone can offer up some numbers.

By the way...this is an interesting topic

 

[Ranger REG]

By "today," you mean the period between Fall 2000 and Summer 2003? I agree.

 

[Akrasia]

By "today," you mean the period between Fall 2000 and Summer 2003? I agree.

Agree that the peak was in the 1980s?

 

[Akrasia]

Much hinges on what exactly we mean by peak: peak in profits, peak in public mind-share, peak in units sold, peak in news coverage (positive and negative), peak in number of active players, etc.
...

What I am interested in is the "number of active players" category.

As for "media coverage", I am sure the peak was in the 1980s during the big various "Satanism" and "suicide" scares concerning D&D! (Remember "Mazes and Monsters" starring Tom Hanks anyone? )

The late 1990s -- the latter days of 2nd edition AD&D -- clearly constituted a "dark time" for the game. But has the hobby now superceded the 1980s in terms of numbers of players, or has it simply returned to a state of relative health?

 

[pennywiz]

Yet people on these boards have often disputed this claim, arguing that it is more popular now.

This quote from the recent National Review piece on D&D (http://www.nationalreview.com/miller/miller200410151029.asp) suggests that this might be the case: "More people play Dungeons & Dragons now than ever before," says Charles Ryan, D&D's brand manager. "Every year, we sell more copies of the Player's Handbook than we did during the 1980s."

No numbers are provided by Ryan -- and as a "brand manager" I would expect more than a little spin here.

You seem inclined to believe what you want and to call those that disagree liars. Why is that?

 

[Akrasia]

You seem inclined to believe what you want and to call those that disagree liars. Why is that?

What the f*** are you talking about?!?

The two quotes I mention conflict with each other.

I have also read many other pieces on D&D that claim that it had its peak in the 1980s (not now).

So, given that I have read conflicting claims here, some of which support my impression D&D did in fact peak in the 1980s, I am not "inclined to believe what I want".

By all means, give the the data!

 

[pennywiz]

What the f*** are you talking about?!?

The two quotes I mention conflict with each other.

I have also read many other pieces on D&D that claim that it had its peak in the 1980s (not now).

So, given that I have read conflicting claims here, some of which support my impression D&D did in fact peak in the 1980s, I am not "inclined to believe what I want".

By all means, give the the data!

The first is not a quote, it's just a line in an article. The second is a direct quote from the brand manager of the game who you then intimate is lying.

You're trying to feather the nest of your beliefs to lead to the conclusion you already wish to draw.

If you want actual data on current sales numbers, try the business pages. Do a google search for "number of D&D players" and mayeb with a year.

Most of what you are going to get on any message board are opinions of people who do not have any more access to hard numbers than you. Besides, why would you believe anyone on a message board when you won't even believe someone (the brand manager) who has the actual numbers?

Sorry. You smack of someone who has made up their mind and intends to defend it regardless of data (such as that from the brand manager).

Don't swear on the boards, even if you obfusticate it. It isn't allowed.

 

[caudor]

What I am interested in is the "number of active players" category.

In that case...

I'd be inclined to believe that D&D is at its peak right now, especially considering what the D&D brand manager said more players than ever.

To back this up a little more: Also, consider the fact that D&D has spawned/inspired other avenues of fantasy roleplaying such as A-list computer games (i.e Neverwinter Night, EQ, etc). There have been movies and best-selling novels based on D&D since the 80's. Movie stars will openly admit they play D&D now days. And D&D's 30th anniversary just made the front page of CNN. A whole industry based on d20 as greatly expanded the availability of compatible products.

 

[Akrasia]

The first is not a quote, it's just a line in an article. The second is a direct quote from the brand manager of the game who you then intimate is lying..

Ummm ... the quote from the CNN article is making a claim -- presumably not one that the reporter made up out of thin air. News agencies that simply "invent" facts -- like the claim that D&D was at "its peak" in the 1980s -- tend not to last very long. :\

Also, perhaps it is a fine point, but there is a difference between "spinning" (which politicians, brand managers, etc. all engage in) and "lying".

You're trying to feather the nest of your beliefs to lead to the conclusion you already wish to draw.

Wow -- I had no idea you knew me so well, pennywiz!

If you want actual data on current sales numbers, try the business pages. Do a google search for "number of D&D players" and mayeb with a year.

Most of what you are going to get on any message board are opinions of people who do not have any more access to hard numbers than you. Besides, why would you believe anyone on a message board when you won't even believe someone (the brand manager) who has the actual numbers?

First of all, I do not want to do any work to find this data.

Seond of all, it is always quite possible that people on a message board like this one might have "access to hard numbers", or at least might have some ready links to which they can direct me.

Sorry. You smack of someone who has made up their mind and intends to defend it regardless of data (such as that from the brand manager).

Well I certainly would question claims from "brand managers" (whose job consists in "spinning", i.e. putting forward the best possible impression of the brand in question), just as I would question claims from "campaign managers" in the current election cycle.

Don't swear on the boards, even if you obfusticate it. It isn't allowed

Oh relax. :\

You seem eager to make unwarranted assumptions about my character. I will not do you the same discourtesy.