Penalty for Subdual Damage, anyway to get rid of it?

[hammymchamham]

I know their is a PrC out their that does, but is their a feat? Or at least lessens the penalty

 

[Destil]

Shouldn't be unbalanced to just make one, or extend the existing weapon profiency feats into using them as subdual damage, since the penelity and the idea (not really familiar with that use of the weapon) is the same.

 

[Bauglir]

You could just use a sap - that does d6 subdual with normal use.

Or if that's not enough damage you could in theory scale it up to a large sap for (I think) 2d4 damage 2-handed.

Tho that might look a bit silly

 

[shilsen]

Easy. Play a monk

 

[Hashmalum]

There really shouldn't even be a PrC that can do it. When you deal subdual damage with a weapon, you are swinging it in a way it just wasn't designed for (such as hitting someone with the flat of a sword blade). No matter how skilled the user, that is NEVER going to be as good as using the weapon in the intended fashion because the balance, etc. is going to be all wrong. It's like trying to cut things with a dull knife; you can use more force to compensate for the dullness of the blade but the same amount of force with a sharp knife would be more effective. You can't remove the penalty, only increase your ability so that you can do the job in spite of it.

If you need to subdue someone, either use a weapon designed for it (such as the sap) or use magic. Just because it is simple in terms of game mechanics to describe a certain effect (such as "removes the -4 penalty for attacking to subdue") doesn't mean that it makes sense to come up with a feat that has the effect.

 

[smetzger]

I know their is a PrC out their that does, but is their a feat? Or at least lessens the penalty

From the NetBook of Feats:
IMPROVED SUBDUAL [General: Offense]
COPYRIGHT 2001, Scott Metzger
You really know how to subdue opponents.
Prerequisite: Proficient in a bludgeoning weapon
Benefit: When attacking with a bludgeoning weapon and attempting to do subdual damage you do not incur the usual penalties for attempting to do subdual damage. Also, the weapon's threat range is doubled when dealing subdual damage.
Balance: 4.15 (Purp 4.00, Pow 3.75, Port 4.50, Comp 4.00, Rule 4.50)

 

[Hypersmurf]

At work without my books... doesn't Watch Detective from MotW get something like that?

-Hyp.

 

[shilsen]

Right. At 5th lvl the Watch Detective has no penalty to attacks when causing subdual damage with a weapon designed for normal damage. At 7th lvl it gets the Improved subdual ability, which adds the Int bonus to damage rolls when causing subdual damage.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

There is a merciful enhancement (+1 I think) for weapons. It grants +1d6 damage, and all damage is subdual. If you want normal damage, you lose the d6.

Spellcasters can get subdual substitution, a metamagic feat (+0 spellslot AFAIK) to change all damage to subdual damage (nice for lichs and the like so they can drop the fireball right in front of them).

And I think, a feat for that isn't that far out (I think I have seen some feats that do that, but I can't remember where).

 

[Stavros]

Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide also has an "Improved Subdual" feat in it, and it's a 'D&D' supplement, not a d20 or OGL supplement.