D&D 5E Permanent Spells

[Falling Icicle]

Some spells, such as guards and wards, can be made permanent by casting them repeatedly. Can spells that have been made permanent this way be dispelled? If not, is there any other way to end them?

 

[Stalker0]

Some spells, such as guards and wards, can be made permanent by casting them repeatedly. Can spells that have been made permanent this way be dispelled? If not, is there any other way to end them?

Reading Dispel Magic there is no reason it would not end a permanent effect.

I know for me, I would rule it only suppresses them....as I think dispel magic is always very very powerful in 5e, but strict RAW it looks like you can take them out.

 

[jadrax]

Looking at Wall of Stone, it specifies that 'If you maintain your concentration on this spell for its whole duration, the wall becomes permanent and can’t be dispelled.'

So I would assume that any spell that does not mention that can be dispelled. It is also interesting that 'Flesh to Stone' avoids using the word permanent, I am not sure if the intention is that it is dispellable or not.


Not I would imagine if you go around Dispelling the Guild of Honourable and Unsubtle Wizards' Permanent Teleportation Circles, your health may quickly suffer.

 

[Uchawi]

Dispel magic was always a cheap effect, I prefer the concept of counter spell, where you need to know the spell in question to counter it. If multiple castings makes it permanent, then multiple counters must undo it. So in that sense dispel magic for spell effects should only be temporary and overall should probably be a concentration based spell. Maybe a better description of dispel magic, is suppress magic.

 

[77IM]

As a counterargument, spells like arcane lock and imprisonment list a duration of "until dispelled." So I'd be inclined to take the word "permanent" literally, and require stronger stuff than dispel magic.

 

[Rilak]

As a counterargument, spells like arcane lock and imprisonment list a duration of "until dispelled." So I'd be inclined to take the word "permanent" literally, and require stronger stuff than dispel magic.

So you can't dispel True Polymorph? Pit Fiends can cast spells, right? Woohoo. My Wizard now has 300 HP, can cast his usual spells, has 4 attacks, and increased his spellcasting stat so his spells have a higher DC... And it can't be dispelled, so...

Permanent should be until dispelled unless otherwise noted in the spell.

Arcane lock is different, because it is a spell that has that duration "until dispelled". The spells that can become permanent do so by triggering a different condition than casting the spell (such as concentrating long enough or casting the spell many days in a row).

 

[MortalPlague]

I know for me, I would rule it only suppresses them....as I think dispel magic is always very very powerful in 5e, but strict RAW it looks like you can take them out.

I would rule the same way. For most intents and purposes, suppressing the magic achieves the desired effect of bypassing a challenge, but doesn't undo it forever. So if the PCs suppress the ward, then have to return later, they'd have to suppress it again.

Counter-magic should be a viable strategy for PCs and enemies alike. I don't want to nerf a PC for taking dispel magic.

On a slight tangent, I love the way some spells become permanent in 5th Edition through repeated castings or by other tricks. It's very flavorful, and offers some great opportunities for NPC wizards to be 'doing something important' while the PCs show up.

 

[77IM]

So you can't dispel True Polymorph? Pit Fiends can cast spells, right? Woohoo. My Wizard now has 300 HP, can cast his usual spells, has 4 attacks, and increased his spellcasting stat so his spells have a higher DC... And it can't be dispelled, so...

Permanent should be until dispelled unless otherwise noted in the spell.

Arcane lock is different, because it is a spell that has that duration "until dispelled". The spells that can become permanent do so by triggering a different condition than casting the spell (such as concentrating long enough or casting the spell many days in a row).

Well true polymorph has its own special problems and as a 9th level spell I'm OK with it being broken and don't want to extrapolate too much from it.

However you raise a very good point; I can't find any spells with a listed duration of "permanent." Spells that effect a lasting, undispellable change are "instantaneous" (awaken, stone shape). "Permanent" only appears in the text entry.

 

[DogBackward]

So you can't dispel True Polymorph? Pit Fiends can cast spells, right? Woohoo. My Wizard now has 300 HP, can cast his usual spells, has 4 attacks, and increased his spellcasting stat so his spells have a higher DC... And it can't be dispelled, so...

Unfortunately, you don't keep your Wizard spellcasting (or any of your normal abilities at all) while you're a pit fiend. True polymorph specifically stats that it replaces your normal game statistics, which would include spellcasting and all other features. You only keep what the spell specifically says you keep.

Also note that you can still be knocked back into your old form by being reduced to 0 HP. Nothing in the spell's description - even becoming permanent - negates the fact that the transformation ends when the target is reduced to 0 HP or dies.