I have to say I like what they did with the Paladin for the most part. Some house rules will be in order though on our end from what I see. Is it just me or does it look like the Lay on hands ability could make the Paladin an unbeatable tank at high levels? At 14th level and assuming an 18 Cha he can Lay on hands 11 times a day (Don't have book in front of me so excuse me if I am off slightly). That isn't my issue, my issue his his ability to administer it to himself as a swift action every round curing 7d6 damage, then moving, attacking or full attacking etc. This just seems to be an absurd amount of free healing each round IMO. Should this ability not have remained a standard action for both administering to others as well as himself? Thoughts? This has been my only concern so far. The book rocks and I look forward to playing the game as well!
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PF Paladin Lay on hands ability
- Thread starter MACLARREN
- Start date
I've been playing one for a while with the post-beta Paladin rules. On the surface it looks like a lot but in practice it's not ridiculous. You burn through LoH uses pretty quick. We're 11th level in RotR and going toe-to-toe with the giants isn't working so well. Sure, healing 17.5hp per round for free is a big deal but when each giant hits for 30 to 35hp, you can't stick around long.
In game play it seems to let the Paladin stick around a little longer, buying the rest of the party time to get their act together and help him.
I'd suggest try it as written before firming up your opinion. This guy is the Paladin I always wanted to play.
kitsune9
Adventurer
Yeah, and when they give him mercy, I think the paladin is the clear winner in the new version. I really like paladins and probably think they are my favorite class, so I'm anxious to give the class a try.
Synchronicity
First Post
Plus, of course, there's the free hand issue. The paladin needs one hand free to use lay on hands, meaning they can't use a weapon and a large shield while maintaining their ability to lay on hands. It's not much of a mitigating factor, just 1 point of AC, but I just thought I'd mention it.
Liquidsabre
Explorer
It does seem like a lot at-a-glance but given that LoH can be used to channel and aid a smite attack (via the feat) I imagine it would get burned through quickly at that level.
I thought about that too. No paladin's in heavy shield anymore. Looks like its all THW from now on!
Jadeite
Hero
I wouldn't say that. With Improved Shield Bash, Shield Slam, Shield Mastery and Smite Evil, Paladins make rather good TWFers.
jasin
Explorer
Still twice as long as the fighter, barbarian, monk or rogue, no?
Any concern about the paladin being overpowered isn't about how he compares to giants, it's how he compares to the other PCs.
Not necessarily. A fighter would be dishing out more damage per round, ending the combat quicker or would have higher AC or have other tricks to make himself survivable due to feats. A rogue would likely be dishing out sneak attack or he wouldn't be there in the first place. A barbarian would have likely raged and would be pumping out stupid numbers to end the situation early and might be using rage powers at the same time for the same reason.
See... that's the point. Other classes could do things during combat. The Paladin by and large couldn't. Smite once or twice a day is fine if your opponent is evil and even then it's only a couple times a day. Lay on Hands in 3.5 core wasn't something you'd consider using on yourself in combat unless you blew your entire pool, in which case you maybe bought yourself one round of survival. In PFRPG the Paladin is given a usable tactic. Survival in itself isn't terribly unbalancing either. It's not like suddenly the Paladin is dishing out massive damage, owning the game. No. He's a tank, gritting his teeth and hanging on through the brutality unleashed on him.
Really, if you think about it the 3.5 core Paladin was unbalanced. In combat on average he was a Fighter without all the feats. The removal of disease, the turning undead, and even the handful of spells weren't - on average - useful most of the time. The flavor left him underpowered in an actual fight. Giving him endurance was an elegant way of bringing him in line without stepping on any other class' toes role-wise.
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