Pathfinder 2E PF2E Gurus teach me! +

[darjr]

Basically what would you say to someone looking to give it a wirl?

What pitfalls, what works, what are some of the best interpretations, what is a good intro adventure.

How do I navigate the web for more? Like what’s the paces at Paizo, what are the good 3pp places.

I ask a lot because am ignorant.

Thanks!

Plus thread whatchamacalit.

 

[darjr]

Oh and anyone else with questions askaway!

 

[JThursby]

The best, free resource is going to be Archives of Nethys, which I've linked here to go to the on boarding introduction section. It is the free rules repository, officially sanctioned by Paizo. Highly useful in general. It's going to be your best source while Paizo is recovering from the hug of death the internet is giving their store.

The best introduction adventure is going to be the Beginner Box. The physical box is quite good, but so is the Foundry VTT module. You will hear Foundry VTT recommended a lot. The PF2e implementation is extremely powerful, automating many features like vision, flanking, resistances and weaknesses, and it has all the book content up to date.

The best adventure is generally considered to be Abomination Vaults, which is convenient because it takes place in the same town as the Beginner Box. Do not let the tagline "enter the megadungeon" fool you; it would not be the most popular 2e AP if it was merely a combat slog. The Foundry VTT version of it is also phenomenal.

Pathfinder has it's own version of DM's Guild, called Pathfinder Infinite. The real 3pp powerhouse is Roll for Combat though, whose main designer is Mark Seifter, one of the lead designers on 2e itself (you're probably familar with them by now lol). It is the closest you will get to first party quality so far.

Common pitfalls:
-Because +10 past a DC causes a critical in either direction, +/- 1's and 2s are both common and undervalued by new players. Causing a -2 to Will Saves with a skill might not sound very exciting, but in general that means a +20% impact for damaging abilities that target Will, not +10%, since it has converted successes to criticals at the same time it converts failures to successes. It also means auxiliary effects on criticals become more frequent, which can sometimes be devastating and change the whole nature of a fight. By the same token, let your defenses lag and you stand to get obliterated by frequent crits on your AC or Saves.
-Out of combat recovery is not only useful, it's expected. Spending the time to get focus points back and recovery HP is considered a normal part of the game. Multiple combats without any form of recovery are rare and highly difficult.
-The wealth per level guidelines, and the item system in general, is not optional. It's part of the math of the game. The same goes with the encounter guidelines. It is not like most D&D editions where you can just ignore item and CR recommendations. Mark put a lot of effort to make the math of the game work when you just follow the guidelines, so I would tell any new 2e GM to consider those guidelines sacred until they understand why they are the way they are. All the APs already do that for you.
-Sometimes, characters with action efficient classes neglect to find a use for their third action. This is a mistake. Every player should have something to do with that third action, be that raise a shield, cast shield, recall knowledge, or ready to Aid another player.

 

[Lord Shark]

Yes, healing between combats is important.

Also, if you're used to PF1E/3E, be aware that attacks of opportunity are much rarer; among the core classes, only fighters automatically get the ability to make attacks of opportunity, and only some monsters can make them.

 

[niklinna]

I gave Pathfinder 2 a brief whirl during the first year of the pandemic, joining Age of Ashes around level 7. I don't recommend Age of Ashes. Although it might have been the group: Tight teamwork is important in Pathfinder 2, especially in Age of Ashes, and this group did not exhibit it. But Age of Ashes had its share of critics, as I recall.

As for the rules, I found the presentation of all the class feats rather overwhelming, so I started making charts, and even though I didn't continue playing, I did keep the charts reasonably up to date. Maybe these will help you & your tablemates.

Pathfinder 2 Class Feat Charts

Two thumbs up for Archives of Nethys! And a pro tip: Do a google/duckduckgo search for "nethys search_term", it's much faster than the website's own search.

EDIT: Clarified that it's Age of Ashes I don't recommend, rather than Pathfinder 2!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I can only hope that it gets better with player experience, but the "three action economy" that looks so wonderful on paper can actually be very frustrating with players who constantly try to either do FOUR actions on their turn, or (just as bad) only TWO. The arguments/discussions that can result can really bog the game down.

Make sure you and your group get that under control early. I honestly think it's a great mechanic, but I've seen games grind under it.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Would plug the Foundry VTT as well. PF2e in general is pretty fiddly. Foundry does a great job of helping players and DMs manage that fiddliness.

Also would plug the Pathbuilder application for character creation and generally urge teaching/learning character creation on a 'one level at a time' basis rather than trying to fully understand 'builds'. There are a million feats a player might choose in total and it can be a bit overwhelming to try and take it all in, but there only a fewish at each level, so it's not so bad in play.

Train your players to dial back expectations on character survivability, and understand the benefits of teamwork. Damage is swingy, crits are impactful and can be manufactured.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I can only hope that it gets better with player experience, but the "three action economy" that looks so wonderful on paper can actually be very frustrating with players who constantly try to either do FOUR actions on their turn, or (just as bad) only TWO. The arguments/discussions that can result can really bog the game down.

Make sure you and your group get that under control early. I honestly think it's a great mechanic, but I've seen games grind under it.

Could be table variation. Our group found the way the game notation indicates action costs very intuitive.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Could be table variation. Our group found the way the game notation indicates action costs very intuitive.

I played PF2 with quite a few different tables, but only early on. (Playtest, and initial release - all at my comic/game store). Like I said, I like to think it gets better with player experience. I didn't bother introducing it to my personal group, because I knew (after playing it with customers) that a few of my friends would have been terrible at it. (Some players are slow to grasp that kind of thing, and I have a few of them).

I think if you either have a group that are all very mechanics-forward players, or if you work hard to teach anyone who's not that way, combined with some time, it should work itself out.

I was just really surprised by the issue, because I absolutely loved the 3 action economy on paper. I didn't expect to have as much trouble with it in play as I did. (Not myself, mind, but with my players).

 

[Gammadoodler]

I played PF2 with quite a few different tables, but only early on. (Playtest, and initial release - all at my comic/game store). Like I said, I like to think it gets better with player experience. I didn't bother introducing it to my personal group, because I knew (after playing it with customers) that a few of my friends would have been terrible at it. (Some players are slow to grasp that kind of thing, and I have a few of them).

I think if you either have a group that are all very mechanics-forward players, or if you work hard to teach anyone who's not that way, combined with some time, it should work itself out.

I was just really surprised by the issue, because I absolutely loved the 3 action economy on paper. I didn't expect to have as much trouble with it in play as I did. (Not myself, mind, but with my players).

Gotcha. Wasn't meaning to imply that you were wrong as much as to indicate that my experience was different.

For us, we still get tripped up by things like nested conditions, and it took us a bit to get the hang of the ways all the bonuses and penalties hang together (some better than others), but we all pretty much had the three action system squared away by the end of the first session.