PF2E POLL

PF2E POLL

  • Love it!

    Votes: 10 9.5%
  • It's got promise but there's fixing needed

    Votes: 60 57.1%
  • Meh, I've seen better renditions

    Votes: 24 22.9%
  • Loathe it. Disgraceful to 3.x history

    Votes: 11 10.5%

Arakasius

First Post
There has been some initial feedback from Paizo on feedback they’ve gotten. And it’s basicslly what I thought. Most of the feedback has been on character building and a bit on resonance. The character building has been on things like exclusivity of some skills and feats as well as tweaks to ancestral feats and multiclassing. Which makes sense since to appeal to the PF1 crowd it needs a robust character generation system. Now I hope they do leave a bunch of feats for martials only because part of the reason that LFQW exists is because it’s so easy for casters to take all the martials tricks because their spells support it so much more. This is more true in PF2 where things like gishes are so much more viable right away.

The good thing is the base chassis is so solid. 3 actions, TEML and crit success/failures are all very good and fun. So I would guess most of this playtest will be bug fixing and tweaking the class system (progression and balancing) along with perhaps changes to their more ambitious changes like resonance.
 

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I did up a fairly long review here.

I have mixed feelings. But I imagine a lot of my complaints might be a result of their more "extreme" design, planned to illicit feedback. But, as the playtest stands, I have little interest in the game.
 

Satyrn

First Post
I like it.

My only major criticism is....
I am not though fond of "relative" systems where the DCs change based on the level of the group. I like absolute DCs that equate to how tough something is period.

So the skill system is not something I love given it includes the level bonus. I prefer an independent skill system. That though is something I am guessing would be easy to houserule. At this point, I will buy the game if it doesn't change massively.

The DM section talks about how tasks have absolute DCs that equate to how tough something is period. Balancing on a log is a level 1 task, with some specific unchanging DC. Balancing on a tightrope is some level higher, with some higher specific unchanging DC.

The level of the character attempting the check has no bearing on it at all. I think the rules will suit you fine as written, is what I'm saying
 

Satyrn

First Post
I should've just quoted the PDF (page 336):
It’s important that you don’t simply make the DC arbitrarily higher or lower with the PCs’ level. Any increase must be justified based on how the challenge actually increased, and thus how success is more impressive. For checks against opponents’ DCs, higher-level adversaries have higher skills, so the players can clearly see improvement as they challenge and surpass more powerful foes.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
The reason it’s so hard to gauge community reception right now is because it ranges from diehards who haven’t even really dug into the system to people who are very hung-ho for a change from a lot of issues with 3e D&D balance that have become evident over the past 15 years or so. Add to that the fact that i’ve seen opinions change between just reading and table play. It truly needs to be table-tested to get a good grasp on whether you’re group will like it or not.

My group has only played level 1 and so far LOVES it. One guy literally said yesterday (on the subject of what our group wants to do when the playtest is over), “whether we stick with [the playtest doc], go to 5e, or WHATEVER, I can’t see myself going back to [the PF1 rules].”
 

Raith5

Adventurer
I did up a fairly long review here.

I have mixed feelings. But I imagine a lot of my complaints might be a result of their more "extreme" design, planned to illicit feedback. But, as the playtest stands, I have little interest in the game.


I found this review very useful.

I am coming at PF2 from the perspective of liking 4e and being interested in a well developed alternative to 5e. I would like to see a game that has more space for PC customization (especially for martial PCs), more dynamic monsters and a wider range of tactical options in combat than 5e. Having looked at the playtest I seem some potential on these fronts - but I still think the basic mechanics have a layer of unnecessary legacy or needless complexity - things like touch AC, raising shields, etc.
 

Nilbog

Snotling Herder
I'll caveat my comments by saying i haven't run the game yet, just read the document.

I didn't find it an easy read, but once I got my head round it, things started to fall into place, it looks a good system, if with a few too many sub systems to be perfect. I like that the complexity seems front loaded (ie during character build) and the system looks no more complex than 4e (albeit with a few more little bits to remember, but nothing show stopping)

My only real major complaint is to echo one mentioned above and expanded, the Paladin and Ranger classes (two of my favourites) are extremely average, with the Paladin being woeful. I can't see anytime that if I want to play those concept why I wouldn't just build a fighter and take the feats to mould it
 

I found this review very useful.

I am coming at PF2 from the perspective of liking 4e and being interested in a well developed alternative to 5e. I would like to see a game that has more space for PC customization (especially for martial PCs), more dynamic monsters and a wider range of tactical options in combat than 5e. Having looked at the playtest I seem some potential on these fronts - but I still think the basic mechanics have a layer of unnecessary legacy or needless complexity - things like touch AC, raising shields, etc.

You could get rid of touch AC with some pretty quick house ruling (spellcasters make spell attacks using their casting stat rather than Dexterity, but hit regular AC).

Shields... that seems like it would be beneficial to fans of tactical combat. Each round fighters get that extra action option with baked in reaction. They can choose better AC or to take another action. Feels like a nice, meaningful tactical choice.
 

The DM section talks about how tasks have absolute DCs that equate to how tough something is period. Balancing on a log is a level 1 task, with some specific unchanging DC. Balancing on a tightrope is some level higher, with some higher specific unchanging DC.

The level of the character attempting the check has no bearing on it at all. I think the rules will suit you fine as written, is what I'm saying

I should've just quoted the PDF (page 336):

It’s important that you don’t simply make the DC arbitrarily higher or lower with the PCs’ level. Any increase must be justified based on how the challenge actually increased, and thus how success is more impressive. For checks against opponents’ DCs, higher-level adversaries have higher skills, so the players can clearly see improvement as they challenge and surpass more powerful foes.
The rulebook quote is hilarious to me, because I cannot count the number of times I read a Pathfinder Society scenario that had different DCs for each different level band.

The catch is, the world IS going to scale by the very nature of wanting to present challenges.

You present the challenge of having to balance on a log at level 1. If you want to do so again a few levels later, you're doing so because you, as the DM, want that element in the game that brings with it a chance of risk and failure. You're never going to throw the level 1 log task at a 10th level party because it's not worth the time it takes to roll. You just say they auto-pass and move on.
Balancing on a log has become "tie your shoelaces" or "climb a ladder" or "start a campfire in ideal conditions" in that it's a task you're not going to bother asking for a check for, as there's no reasonable chance of failure.

As the DM, if you want that kind of element to the encounter, then it will be artificially made more difficult. If you want to have the level 5 party challenged by crossing a log (either as an exploratory challenge or as a bit of terrain in a combat encounter) then it's going to be a hard to cross log. It's going to be slimy and its bark is sloughing off. Otherwise... what's the point? They wouldn't even get experience for it.

And because you want to keep doing different things and not running the same encounter again and again, it's unlikely players will encounter the same task in short order. You've had that encounter, you're going to do something different. So there's not likely to be many times you come across a challenge at level 1 and then encounter that exact same challenge at level 4 and can bypass it with ease, because the DM already run that challenge and wants to do something new and different. "Gee, I ran a greased log over a gorge encounter at level 5. Why would I do it again at level 8? It's going to be loose stones on a river of lava."

Plus the "checks against opponents’ DCs, higher-level adversaries have higher skills, so the players can clearly see improvement as they challenge and surpass more powerful foes" bit is kinda B.S.
You had a 50% chance of hitting the goblin you fought at level 1. And then at level 10 when you're fighting the goblin archchief, you still have that 50% chance of hitting. There's no real improvement as the monsters level with you. You don't see an improvement, the numbers are just bigger. You can replicate that same effect by just remaining at level 1 the entire game and describing the enemies as bigger and scarier.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I found this review very useful.

I am coming at PF2 from the perspective of liking 4e and being interested in a well developed alternative to 5e. I would like to see a game that has more space for PC customization (especially for martial PCs), more dynamic monsters and a wider range of tactical options in combat than 5e. Having looked at the playtest I seem some potential on these fronts - but I still think the basic mechanics have a layer of unnecessary legacy or needless complexity - things like touch AC, raising shields, etc.
I rather like the concept of the shield rules (take action to gain AC), but combined with the hardness and dent rules and shields breaking it gets to be a little much. If I want my equipment to keep breaking, I'll play Breath of the Wild. :)
 

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