PHB II - Beguiler

[Tzarevitch]

Could someone else with the book explain this to me:

The PHB 2 Beguiler Class has a spell progression that goes up to 9th level spells. The text says that beguilers use the spell list printed later in the book. The problem is that spell list later in the book only goes up to 6th level spells.

The beguiler text also says that they can add sorcerer/wizard spells of the Enchantment Charm and Illusion schools to their list. Unfortunately, the beguiler class can only do this 2x more after he gains 6th level spells allowing him to gain 2 total additional spells to cover his 7th, 8th and 9th level spells. What gives? Did I read this wrong?

Tzarevitch

 

[Ashanderai]

I suspect you were looking at the list on page 97, which is the list of new spells in the PH2. The Beguiler spell list is on page 11.

 

[Vanye]

My biggest problem with the beguiler, from the read over I did last night at B&N (since my copy doesn't arrive until tomorrow...) is there ability at level 20: auto defeat spell resistance.

Doesn't matter what SR their target has, it's automatically defeated.

"Goodbye, <blah> god of <huwah>, I've just dominated you. Oh, you had an SR of 50? Doesn't matter, I win. Go try to obliterate your arch enemy..."

Okay, a foolish example, but still..that's an awful powerful ability...

 

[EyeontheMountain]

One thing I liked aboutthe 4 PHBII classes is their ability spread. All of them get good abilities at high levels. As opposed to the PHB I classes where cherrypicking is the best to do.

These classes offer something for the character who sticks with them for a lot of levels. Great idea.

 

[Stalker0]

I haven't seen the beguiler yet, but if that ability is true, then I agree its too powerful.

When your throwing around 9th level spells, SR is often the only defense you have, saves have gone by the wayside. Even for a 20th level ability I think its a bit much.

 

[smootrk]

Without looking at the book, much less than the ability in question, I would propose that the Beguiler ability be modified to a 20point reduction in the target's SR (for the Beguiler only), and if there are Epic levels, maybe additional +1 per level beyond twenty. That keeps the gods safe... for a while.

 

[ragnar99]

Actually the Beguiler ability is part of its cloaked casting ability. He only auto-defeats SR if he catches something flat-footed or feints them.

 

[Sammael]

That makes exactly zero sense, since SR is supposed to be "always up" unless the creature voluntarily lowers it.

 

[hafrogman]

That makes exactly zero sense, since SR is supposed to be "always up" unless the creature voluntarily lowers it.

I think just like attacking a flat footed creature gives a knowledgeable combatant (read: sneak attack) that extra split second to aim, the idea is the beguiler can use that extra split second to figure out how to work around the spell resistance. It depends on whether you view SR as a shield that must be battered down by force, or one that can be bypassed if you know what you're doing.

 

[Felon]

I think just like attacking a flat footed creature gives a knowledgeable combatant (read: sneak attack) that extra split second to aim, the idea is the beguiler can use that extra split second to figure out how to work around the spell resistance. It depends on whether you view SR as a shield that must be battered down by force, or one that can be bypassed if you know what you're doing.

Sounds like a reasonable explanation.

Since plenty of creatures have no SR, it's safe to say that bypassing it hardly damns a creature to certain death. The reason a creature has spell resistance instead of spell immunity is because it's intended to be circumventable. And we are talking about a 20th-level ability for Pete's sake.