PHB2 Making Epic Rules Irrelevant?

[RolandOfGilead]

With the release of many of the feats in PHB2, I think you could make the case that the epic feats are either irrelevant (1), have been made non epic and put in other books (2) really, really need an update (3).

Spontaneous domain access was essentially stolen in complete divine
Epic wf and ws have been made a mockery by the various weapon feats in PHB.. so..
has epic level handbook been nerfed? and was this done to make way for "EPIC ADVENTURES 3.5" etc etc. Discuss!

 

[Aloïsius]

Or maybe WOTC think the epic rules were a bad idea ? After all, the average Dragon or Solar in the MM use standard rules, why must players use another system ? I guess there won't be epic level rules in 4.0, or that epic level characters will be handled differently.

 

[Bill Bisco]

There will definitely be some support for higher levels in 4th edition somewhere. What I hope is that they make a system which is built to include the higher levels and the lower ones rather than adding higher levels as an afterthought.

 

[glass]

With the release of many of the feats in PHB2, I think you could make the case that the epic feats are either irrelevant (1), have been made non epic and put in other books (2) really, really need an update (3).

I think that a lot of the feats in the ELH really didn't live up to their 'Epic' billing, so on that basis it isn't surprising that some of them have been de-Epic-ified.

Personally, I'd love to see a Expanded Epic Level Handbook that totally reworked the epic system in the same way the XPH did for psionics. And one of the first stipulations I would make for such a book is that the epic level feats should for the most part be truely Epic!


glass.

 

[Mistwell]

In my opinion the epic rules were a mistake. It's a left-over concept from prior editions that you max out "normal" characters at level 20. There is no logical reason to not allow levels to extend higher (perhaps MUCH higher). My hope is that WOTC is figuring this out and phasing out "epic" levels to be just normal levels and normal high-level feats and abilities.

 

[Crothian]

While some of the feats are absolute, and some have been updated; many ar e still good and powerful.

 

[Nail]

With the release of many of the feats in PHB2, I think you could make the case that the epic feats are either irrelevant (1), have been made non epic and put in other books (2) really, really need an update (3).

Absolutely agreed.

Our current party just entered Epic levels (using 3.5e rules, of course). The fact that the Epic rules are 3.0e, along with the fact that newer splat-books have effectively usurped much of the material, means that we are VERY dissappointed with the ELH.

That, and Epic Spell casting sucks.

Hard.

 

[Nail]

My hope is that WOTC is figuring this out and phasing out "epic" levels to be just normal levels and normal high-level feats and abilities.

Your hope is.....well intentioned, but mis-placed. Each of the "Complete" books had revised Epic level material in them...not to mention the DMG 3.5e.

WotC is sticking with it.....much to our group's dismay.

 

[Ilium]

In the DMG they have a "Behind the curtain" that explains the rationale behind epic BAB and Save progressions. That logic seems sound to me. Basically they want to prevent the gap between good and poor progressions from getting so big that you either auto-succeed or auto-fail depending on the type. Something of that would have to survive I think.

 

[Nail]

...But the gap they try to preserve becomes irrelevent at higher levels, due to all of the magical bonuses Epic Level PCs can get.