Phrasing a Skill Check that Requires Proficiency

[Rossbert]

An alternate informal way to phrase it might be along the lines of "a character who would be able to tell discovers a ward with a DC 15 Intelligence (Arcana) check."

Although that might be better left for a GM ruling, examples may include the trained sorcerer who never studying/encountered/cast any form of abjuration in his life, or the dilletante scholar who is obsessed with runes and mysterious writings but lacks proficiency due to the very few skills handed out. (Not sure if that bugs anyone else)

 

[Shiroiken]

The normal phrasing is:
"A DC 15 Intelligence (Arcana) check reveals the ward radiates faint conjuration magic."

But, if the skill check requires proficiency in Arcana, would this be the proper wording?
"A DC 15 Arcana (proficiency required) check reveals the ward radiates faint conjuration magic."

Unless you are writing this for a published item, I'd simply add the word proficient somewhere to remind you. Thus:

"A proficient DC: 15 Intelligence (Arcana) check reveals the ward radiates faint conjuration magic."
or
"A DC: 15 Intelligence (Proficient Arcana) check reveals the ward radiates faint conjuration magic."

If you are doing this for a published item, you should add a notation at the beginning of the item clarifying that you have some checks that require skill proficiency, and then list the standard methodology you'll use. So long as you're consistent, it should be fine.

 

[LordEntrails]

I don't think it would be a contradiction. In the core rules, all uses of skills are ability checks modified by skill proficiency. If anything, not calling it an Intelligence check is a contradiction of the rules.

With the above in mind, assuming proficiency is required and a basic Intelligence check reveals nothing of note, perhaps something akin to this might be more appropriate:

"A character proficient in Arcana can attempt a DC 15 Intelligence (Arcana) check to reveal <information>."

You're right, I need to include the ability that is used with the proficiency. This and a suggestion below are my two favorite.

Does this work for you: "A DC 15 Intelligence (Arcana; proficiency required) check reveals the ward radiates faint conjuration magic."

I like this.

I also need to look up how a tool proficiency check is worded, that might give me some hints too.

...
If you're going to override the DM and establish that there is uncertainty by default, I suggest tying it to a specific task. You might even want to specify why there is uncertainty as to the outcome of the task. That task in this circumstance gets this check because reasons.

It's definitely tied to a specific task. In this case an investigation of a magical trap. IMO, to know the school of magic of an arcane trap would need proficiency or training in that skill not just high intelligence. Though, I may re-think that.

Unless you are writing this for a published item, I'd simply add the word proficient somewhere to remind you. ....

Yes, this is for publication

 

[jaelis]

If it’s for publication, I’d go with “A character proficient in Arcana can make an Intelligence (Arcana) check to ...” phrasing.

The Intelligence (Arcana, proficiency required) wording could be misunderstood to mean an untrained character would make a plain Int check, not what you want.

 

[Prakriti]

I would consult the wording from actual adventures. Some examples from Tales from the Yawning Portal:

"It takes three successful DC 15 Intelligence (Arcana or Religion) checks performed by a character who is proficient in that skill..." (p. 163).

"A search of the cage reveals white scales that someone who has proficiency in Nature or Survival can determine to be from no natural animal. A successful DC 15 check using either skill..." (p. 17)

"It is hostile toward strangers, but someone proficient in Animal Handling might be able to calm it down with a DC 15 Wisdom check. If the check succeeds..." (p. 46).

"A character who is proficient in the use of alchemist's supplies might be able to craft alchemist's fire from the dregs of the tanks. Doing so requires a successful DC 15 Intelligence check..." (p. 41)

 

[iserith]

If it’s for publication, I’d go with “A character proficient in Arcana can make an Intelligence (Arcana) check to ...” phrasing.

The Intelligence (Arcana, proficiency required) wording could be misunderstood to mean an untrained character would make a plain Int check, not what you want.

The issue with that phrasing in my view is that it does not state the task with the uncertain outcome the check is meant to resolve. "Make an Intelligence (Arcana) check" isn't something the character is doing - the player is doing that. And we have no idea what that means in terms of what the character is doing in the scene.

 

[jaelis]

The issue with that phrasing in my view is that it does not state the task with the uncertain outcome the check is meant to resolve. "Make an Intelligence (Arcana) check" isn't something the character is doing - the player is doing that. And we have no idea what that means in terms of what the character is doing in the scene.

True but I guess we'd need a little more context to do that. My point is just to be really explicit because someone will get confused about anything. Anyway, following the form of the published adventures Pakriti cited is probably pretty safe.

 

[iserith]

True but I guess we'd need a little more context to do that. My point is just to be really explicit because someone will get confused about anything. Anyway, following the form of the published adventures Pakriti cited is probably pretty safe.

Some of those are pretty badly written in my view, too.

 

[jaelis]

Some of those are pretty badly written in my view, too.

Eh, they are notes to the DM, not written instructions for the players. Works for me. If the characters try something concrete that more or less fits the indicated checks, I would have them roll. YMMV of course

 

[LordEntrails]

I would consult the wording from actual adventures. Some examples from Tales from the Yawning Portal:

"It takes three successful DC 15 Intelligence (Arcana or Religion) checks performed by a character who is proficient in that skill..." (p. 163).

"A search of the cage reveals white scales that someone who has proficiency in Nature or Survival can determine to be from no natural animal. A successful DC 15 check using either skill..." (p. 17)

"It is hostile toward strangers, but someone proficient in Animal Handling might be able to calm it down with a DC 15 Wisdom check. If the check succeeds..." (p. 46).

"A character who is proficient in the use of alchemist's supplies might be able to craft alchemist's fire from the dregs of the tanks. Doing so requires a successful DC 15 Intelligence check..." (p. 41)

This is exactly what I should have looked for from the start. Thank you so much!

I agree with others that some aren't worded very well. I think I'll make my standard "...DC 15 Intelligence (Arcana or Religion) check performed by a character who is proficient in that skill..." and then of course modify the start and end as needed by the situation.

Thanks to everyone, I really appreciate the discussion (not that you can't keep discussing, but I think I have what I need).