Plane Shift Scrolls: Baked in Goodness or Bring Your Own Fork?

[Ghostmoon]

Hello all,

I have a question regarding Plane Shift scrolls. Are they set to a certain planar destination when they are made or can the destination plane be chosen during casting? From the SRD:

Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.)

Plane Shift is an unusual spell in that the focus determines how the spell works. It would seem, by the definition above, that once you scribe the scroll and provide the focus during creation, the scroll is forever attuned to that particular plane. Is this correct?

Thanks!
Ghostmoon

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Plane Shift is an unusual spell in that the focus determines how the spell works. It would seem, by the definition above, that once you scribe the scroll and provide the focus during creation, the scroll is forever attuned to that particular plane. Is this correct?

I agree. You don't really buy a scroll of Planeshift, so much as you buy a scroll of Planeshift to Gahenna, etc.

 

[Scharlata]

I agree. You don't really buy a scroll of Planeshift, so much as you buy a scroll of Planeshift to Gahenna, etc.

Hi!

Agreed.

The same is true for all scrolls and potions (see DMG, magic items). The caster/brewer makes all decisions at the time of producing such an magic item, like how many targets are affected (within the given parameters), what kind of alternative is used (if appropriate) if the spell has two or more options, etc.

Sometimes common sense should be applied.

Kind regards

 

[shilsen]

I agree with Lord Pendragon and Scharlata.

Except that I have to point out to Scharlata that what you call common sense doesn't necessarily mean that to everyone else. But you're still right this time

 

[Hypersmurf]

The same is true for all scrolls and potions (see DMG, magic items). The caster/brewer makes all decisions at the time of producing such an magic item, like how many targets are affected (within the given parameters), what kind of alternative is used (if appropriate) if the spell has two or more options, etc.

Hmm?

Can you quote a reference?

"Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn’t get to make any decisions about the effect —the caster who brewed the potion has already done so."

That's clear. I can't find a similar reference for scrolls...?

THe closest I can find is "A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way"... which would suggest that such parameters can be chosen at activation time.

After all, choosing a target is something that is one when the spell comes into effect. With a potion, it's always 'You'. It would seem fairly useless to have a Scroll of Magic Missile that can only target "Bob the Blacksmith" when you're facing an evil Necromancer, or a scroll of Fireball centred on a spot "fifty feet to the east" when the horde of goblins are a hundred feet to the north...

-Hyp.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I shudder to even think of debating rules with Hypersmurf, but I'm pretty sure that you don't have to carry around the focuses and components for scroll spells. Let me go check.

EDIT: Yup, here it is:

Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.)

Because the focus determines where you go with plane shift, and the creator provides the focus, it looks like the creator does, indeed, choose where you go.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I shudder to even think of debating rules with Hypersmurf, but I'm pretty sure that you don't have to carry around the focuses and components for scroll spells. Let me go check.

No, you definitely don't, and that may make Plane Shift a special case, since the focus was provided at creation time.

But, for example, a scroll of Resist Energy is just that. A potion of Resist Energy must be a potion of Resist Energy (Cold), for example. But with the scroll, you can choose which energy type to resist on reading. With a scroll of Summon Monster IV, you can pick what monster you want to summon on reading.

I disagree with Scharlata's general premise (all decisions about a scroll are made at creation time), while not committing on the specific issue of Plane Shift

-Hyp.

 

[Scharlata]

[...] Can you quote a reference? [...]

Sorry, cannot do that,.... because there is no such thing.

I got confused with the brew potion entries in the DMG/PHB and the undercasting possibility for scrolls and potions.

Thanx for correcting my goof.

Kind regards

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sorry, cannot do that,.... because there is no such thing.

Cool.

Though Plane Shift may, still, be a special case. It's a bit like a scroll of Permanency, Limited Wish, or Miracle. Components are provided by the creator... but those spells have a potentially variable XP component.

Variable components aren't considered in the rules for scrolls

-Hyp.

 

[the Jester]

Yep, another instance when the components of a spell make a perhaps crucial difference in how the spell plays out.

I'm pretty lazy about enforcing this one, but I think that common sense indicates that a scroll of plane shift takes you to the plane whose focus you have.

Edit: which brings up an interesting question: how do you know which plane it's attuned to? It's a fair assumption that the only difference between a plane shift to the celestial planes and one to the Abyss is the tuning fork. When it's already provided but already consumed what is there that would give up the info to you?