Planescape Planescape Conversion!

[Tequila Sunrise]

[MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] So, any comments (good or bad) or final answers?

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=40398]Tequila Sunrise[/MENTION]

Not sure I understand why you're cutting the Free League, Xaositects, Dustmen, and Anarchists...but I do like the Priory of Pain with its Buddhist philosophical leanings (it's slightly similar to the Minds Eye faction described in Faction War, but IMO yours is better).

Personally, I consider the Dustmen to be an essential part of the Planescape universe thanks to the importance of death and eschatology in the setting. The Dustmen seem to have their fingers in a lot of pots, and I think their perspective is quite unique and speaks to that maxim about "fear of death being like a baby in the womb fearing what happens next".

It also seems you elected to cut out special faction abilities? Obviously this is *your* take on Planescape, so you can do whatever you like, but I found the abilities (particularly as they were developed on in Factol's Manifesto) to be iconic.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Not sure I understand why you're cutting the Free League, Xaositects, Dustmen, and Anarchists...but I do like the Priory of Pain with its Buddhist philosophical leanings (it's slightly similar to the Minds Eye faction described in Faction War, but IMO yours is better).

Thanks, glad you like the Priory!

As to why I cut those four factions; they didn't pass my 'long-term viability test,' which is essentially this:
1. Is this faction's philosophy distinct from all others, and does it make sense?
2. Does this faction's philosophy have emotional or practical appeal?

If I could say yes to at least one of these items, I kept the faction. Some faction philosophies score two yeses, while others score only one. (The Bleaker philosophy makes perfect sense, but has little appeal to most folks. The Signer philosophy on the other is air-headed at best, but has great emotional appeal.)

The four factions I cut I did so because I couldn't give either question a strong yes. The Free League philosophy isn't terribly distinct from the Bleaker one, or the indifference of the many Sigilians who simply don't choose a faction. The Xaositect philosophy is likewise nearly indistinguishable from the Bleaker one; the notable difference seems to be that Chaosmen don't like things like beds, rooves, money, and good meals for some indefinable reason. Anarchism is a thing, but I don't think it's viable as a continual ongoing ideal. Most people prefer to work with or at least around the system, rather than tearing it down; at least until things get really oppressive.

Personally, I consider the Dustmen to be an essential part of the Planescape universe thanks to the importance of death and eschatology in the setting. The Dustmen seem to have their fingers in a lot of pots, and I think their perspective is quite unique and speaks to that maxim about "fear of death being like a baby in the womb fearing what happens next".

I admit when I first got my PS boxed set, I loved the Dustmen along with all the other factions. But after reading over them all again recently, I couldn't give a strong yes to either item on my list. They have a distinct sort of extreme-Buddhist philosophy, but I don't think it makes much sense even in a universe with undeath and a verifiable afterlife. Maybe that's just me, though -- you're welcome to make an argument for them as more than an extremist sect of the Priory. The philosophy's emotional appeal is certainly limited -- even Sigil doesn't have that many goths.

It also seems you elected to cut out special faction abilities? Obviously this is *your* take on Planescape, so you can do whatever you like, but I found the abilities (particularly as they were developed on in Factol's Manifesto) to be iconic.

Yeah, I cut the faction bennies for a couple of reasons: 1) I feel there are already enough character widgets -- I don't even allow backgrounds or themes, and 2) outright faction bennies (as opposed to BPs which require sacrifice) make faction membership pretty much mandatory in the same way that Expertise feats are pretty much mandatory.

I do love the factions, but I do want players to have an 'unaligned' option if they're really not interested in that aspect of PS. I suppose the dilemma could be solved by reinstating the Free League...I'll give it some thought over my coming week of seclusion. Again, feel free to leave me one even if I don't answer for a few days.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

[MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] Here's a few followup questions regarding how you handled belief points: It seems like giving players the choice between BPs or APs makes one or the other the 'better' choice, depending on how frequently you award them. So my questions are: Do you award the usual 1 AP per two encounters? How often on average did you award BPs? And did your players, individually or collectively, show a clear preference for one over the other?

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=40398]Tequila Sunrise[/MENTION] My 4e PS game died off before I got to implement the belief points, so I can't answer with in-game anecdotes. My sense is that players who don't care about allegiance (those provincial primes) or are just there to smash monsters and take loot would default to action points (which would be awarded as normal). Players with more investment in PS would get belief points which *are* more powerful, but come at the cost of paying attention to the game from a more actor/thematic stance.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

[MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] That's a shame, BPs look like so much fun! I can't wait to use them in my own PS campaign.

Anywho, I just read a good chunk of Factol's Manifesto, and actually laughed out loud when I got to the Signer faction abilities. Funniest crit fumble rule EVER!

I'm still not inclined to grant faction abilities for free, but I think it'd be fun to give each faction a special use for BPs -- based of course on the abilities described in the FM.

 

[Quickleaf]

Hey [MENTION=40398]Tequila Sunrise[/MENTION] are you still working on your 4e Planescape conversion? How is it coming along?

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

...Heh, I started to convert non-faction stuff, then I started adding BP-activated faction abilities, then I had a good laugh at the Signers' final faction ability (best crit fumble rule EVAR!), and then I got distracted by other stuff.

Bless me, Lady, for I have sinned.

*Flaying begins*

 

[TarionzCousin]

Okay, it's about time someone else posted in this thread.

I ran a 4E mini-campaign set in the Outer Planes, with Sigil included. But sadly, none of my players knew or were interested in Planescape per se. The campaign was only designed to last about eight sessions. It was an early experiment with 20th level characters.

I really like the concept of Belief Points and may steal, alter, or incorporate it whole into my next Planescape game (scheduled for when 5E is released).

 

[Quickleaf]

Okay, it's about time someone else posted in this thread.

I ran a 4E mini-campaign set in the Outer Planes, with Sigil included. But sadly, none of my players knew or were interested in Planescape per se. The campaign was only designed to last about eight sessions. It was an early experiment with 20th level characters.

I really like the concept of Belief Points and may steal, alter, or incorporate it whole into my next Planescape game (scheduled for when 5E is released).

I guess there's room in our Planescape bro-mance for you too

Glad you liked the Belief Points idea; I think [MENTION=40398]Tequila Sunrise[/MENTION] is flexing it in a cool new direction.



P.S. If anyone is interested, I'm thinking of starting a Planescape PbP game: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...l-Witcher-or-Planescape-(looking-for-players)