Player Dilemma

[Corben Willemne]

Well I'm glad I joined in on this. You've just proved that your thinking in game terms, as in a computer game. How you ever suspend peoples disbelief in your games is beyond mine! How can you possibly advocate that the act of taking someones life and judjing their worth can be as simple as oh well he's evil lets kill him.
If you wish to see a reason why not the read some of the Dnd books about Elaith. He is evil but I'd challenge anyone who says he just deserves death because of it. Being evil is not an end it is just one choice. If a paladin goes around judging and killing mearly through his ability then your not talking about a Paladin but rather a bunch of numbers and dice rolls that mean nothing more than a kill score. Are there no ROLE players here? Is there only dice rollers?

 

[Hypersmurf]

How can you possibly advocate that the act of taking someones life and judjing their worth can be as simple as oh well he's evil lets kill him.

I'm not In my opinion, a paladin who Smites on every ping is acting as a Lawful Neutral Judge Dredd Paladinbot.

I'm saying that a paladin can determine immediately whether or not someone has an evil alignment (with the caveats mentioned above regarding false positives). What he should do with that information is a separate question.

-Hyp.

 

[Zen]

Apart from the larger moral issue, isn't the player running the dwarf intentionally provoking the player running paladin? I mean, he's not coming out of the room where he killed the goblins saying, 'I did what I felt must be done', he's saying 'I went behind your back and did what I say you are too weak to do,' and he's saying it like he's one of the kids on South Park.

I'm not certain if the paladin can smite him for that, but I don't thik he has to put up with it, either.

 

[Corben Willemne]

I'm not In my opinion, a paladin who Smites on every ping is acting as a Lawful Neutral Judge Dredd Paladinbot.

I'm saying that a paladin can determine immediately whether or not someone has an evil alignment (with the caveats mentioned above regarding false positives). What he should do with that information is a separate question.

-Hyp.

This is something that seems to escape some posters. It's nice to see that not all are just filling time between Diablo games!

 

[rgard]

In last nights game we came across a goblin village and found a hut full of goblin children. As a Paladin I decided to spare teh children lives. My plan was to try to enlighten them at a later date. The p[roblem is one of my companions a dwarf who has the feat 'Foe Hunter' with goblins been his foe also found teh hut. I warnbed him off, but once i had left he snuck in and killed the all the goblin kids. He is know going around calling my Palidin a girl and boasting about the killings.

The problem I have is that I am not sure how to respond. My first thoughts are that my paladin does not want to carry on with the group due every one else not taking sides. I had hoped that in a party of supposidly good characters someone would have backed me up. Or do i try to reason with the dwarf and try to get hiom to see reason. But hesees his feats means that he needs to kill all goblins on sight. He has all ready killed two goblins who were surrending instead of questioning them.

Please can i have some advice.

(for further info, read my adventures on the story hour board)

Given what you wrote I'm not certain which would be the correct response. It all depends on the nature of the goblins and other evil creatures in the campaign.

If the goblins are evil by their very nature and can never be anything but evil...then you did the wrong thing in that they would have grown up (barring the actions of the dwarf) and lived to kill good people. You may have promoted the common woe. Think of Tolkien orcs and goblins.

If the goblins could be converted to good, then your actions were noble and you are to be commended by role playing the Paladin well. Think of Drizzt and his journey to the light (pun intended.)

So, assuming the goblins could be converted to good, you could do some or all of the following (besides quitting the campaign):

1. Sell your point to the other players. If you want your way in this, you need to convince them to support you.
2. Find some good goblins and let them know what the dwarf did.
3. Go talk to the head cleric in your god's church. Metagame: if the DM agrees with you the NPC clerics may take action against the dwarf.
4. Wait and bide your time. If the dwarf is presented with another opportunity to kill goblin children tell him not too. If he continues to kill, you kill him.

I hope that helps.
Rich

 

[Hypersmurf]

This is something that seems to escape some posters.

I don't think it's that it escapes them - it's that they disagree.

There's a definite school of thought that says a paladin has a divine mandate and responsibility to destroy evil wheresoever it may be found, as immediately as is practical.

Where 'evil' is defined as 'Whatever pings'.

Deviating from this is considered a shirking of the duty of a paladin.

I'm not of that school myself... but it's something that needs to be established at the start of a game that includes a paladin. What are the DM's views on Paladins, on good and evil, on kobold babies? What are the players' views?

If you don't figure it out beforehand, it can get messy.

-Hyp.

 

[Corben Willemne]

Obviously
NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH PALADIN!!!!!

Wouldn't the class be called inquisitor if that was its intention? Besides in their history they requires high charisma. What would this be for impressing the next victim before smiting? I think not!

 

[Ellie_the_Elf]

I've always run that redemption can and does happen for evil creatures and that there are places to take them while they are redeemed. In our previous campaign, the PCs killed a pair of green dragons and found eggs in their nest, unhatched. They took them to a silver dragon ally who plans to try to raise them to be good.

But it's the PCs decision. I don't think it's something that has a black and white, right and wrong solution, and as such I don't reward or penalise which decision they make. If it was as easy as 'it's right to kill them' or 'it's wrong to kill them' Dhillon's post wouldn't have created a three page argument about it!

Ellie.

 

[Grugni]

Again i am going to reply to this "thread" and i will be as concise as it is possible...

I am "NOT" a rules junkie, my characters are roleplayed to the best of my ability.

Firstly Goblins are my hated enemy they also happen to be on my Foehunter list and as such i gain the +1, though out the campaign i have made my plans clear that all goblins who pass my way would end up dead on the floor and my axe stained in their gore... As far as i am concerned the goblin children are the spawn of evil. Regardless of moral dilemma my dwarf acted and with speed and agility and "" NO REMORSE"" snapped their necks like twindling.

I dont care about orphanages and anti evil academies but simply put goblins are evil and if the paladin wishes to test my mettle on the matter we would likely engage in mortal combat...

And my theory behind this is simple... I do not see Bruenor Battlehammer crying himself to sleep over a couple of goblin children, Nor do i imagine Ivan and Pikel complaining about the moral dilemas of live... Now if i slaughtered the human children that we found or perhaps went on a rampage and killed me a couple of elven children then i could understand the concern and likely legal ramifications but i also dont see the human population of the area we adventure in arresting me and hanging me for murder of a couple of goblin runts...

Simply put evil is as evil does... you want to claim me murderer then feel free... But understand this my dwarf is who i rp as and i have no plans of changing his current feeling towards goblins or anyother of the goblinoid races...

Grugni...

Yer dont like what i say, i can give you the number of an elf who does...

 

[DevlinStormweaver]

Thankyou RGARD, for giving me some advice. I hadn't meant for the post to become this long. I am planning on speaking to the partry in our next gaming session, and I will warn the dwarf that i will not torelate him attacking defensly beings.