Player input please on a couple of custom world rules...

[bobcat_grad]

I'm looking for player feedback on a few rules I'm including in a campaign I'll be starting to run within the week. I've already delivered these rules to the players in the campaign, but I'd like to get community feedback on these before we start. If there are any good points or fair criticism, I'll adapt the rules for the campaign. There are two things to look at here: Item Availability and Item Enchanting.

Item Availability:

Item availability is going to be based on chance. As much as I really like D&D 4.0, one of the things that bothered me was how easy it is to acquire the specific magical item you want (after character creation, that is). You can walk into a store and buy anything in the AV books whether or not you’re in a thriving metropolis or a small village. So I decided to add a little excitement and chance to this scenario.

Basically, the probability of finding a certain type and level item is based on the type of settlement you’re in. If you’re in a village you might find the more mundane magical item, but the chance of finding a Level 25 Greatsword is almost nil. If you are in Krondor, the capital of the Western Realm, you are going to have a pretty good chance of finding just about anything you want.

The mechanics for this is pretty simple. When you’re in a settlement that sells items, I’ll have a sheet for the settlement. It will include a chart like this (the forum text editor butchered my chart layout - but you should be able to get the idea of how it works):

Level 1-10​

Level 11-20​

Level 21-30​

Light Armor

Great​

Good​

Slight​

Heavy Armor

Great​

Good​

Slight​

Shields

Good​

Decent​

Slight​

Melee Weapons

Good​

Good​

Slight​

Ranged Weapons

Good​

Decent​

Slight​

Orbs, Rods, and Wands

Good​

Decent​

Slight​

Arms Slot

Good​

Good​

Decent​

Feet Slot

Good​

Good​

Decent​

Hands Slot

Great​

Good​

Good​

Neck Slot

Good​

Decent​

Slight​

Waist Slot

Good​

Decent​

Slight​

Rings

n/a​

Decent​

Slight​

Consumables

Good​

Good​

Decent​

Wondrous Items

Decent​

Slight​

Slim​

These categories map to percentiles like this:

Percent​

Category​

0-4​

Impossible​

5-19​

Slim​

20-44​

Slight​

45-64​

Decent​

65-79​

Good​

80-95​

Great​

96-99​

Sure Thing​

I’ll have a chart that has the actual target number of the category.
If you have your eye on a particular thing, tell me what it is, we’ll figure what category it’s in and you roll a percentile and announce your result. If you hit the number (or less) I have on my sheet, congratulations – a vendor had what you were looking for. If you don’t hit the number, you must wait a certain amount of time before you can try again (for new stock to arrive – maybe it’ll be here then). This time will vary on settlement size and type.

Additionally, some of the larger cities will have Black Markets. If you fail to find the item and you don’t want to wait, you can look on the Black Market. You (or an ally if he wishes to help you in this effort) may add the value of the Streetwise skill to the percentile you need to hit. If you succeed with this roll, you find the item, but there’s a premium for buying off the Black Market. That premium varies due to city size and they type of citizenry there. A seedy seaside port might only have a premium of 10%. But the Dwarven capital will have a much higher premium (since Dwarves aren’t as likely do a shady deal).

Example of how this works: If Kirk’s character is looking for a Jousting Shield (Level 12 item – 13,000 GP), using the table above, we see that he has Decent chance of finding what he’s looking for. My sheet would show he needs to get under a 60. He rolls a 75. Well, it seems he just can’t find a Jousting Shield here. He can either wait a week and try again, or try the Black Market. Kirk’s character has a low Streetwise, so he asks Brandon’s character to ask around for him. Brandon’s Streetwise is 14, so now Kirk rolls again and rolls a 70 this time. I take the 60 target number and add the 14 Streetwise from Brandon’s character which means the roll of 70 beat the new target of 74. Great – he found a guy who’s selling it. But the Black Market premium here is 20%. So, does he want that shield enough to pay 15,600 GP for it? Or would he be willing to look for a different Level 12 shield ?

This does not apply to character creation. It will be assumed your character has spent some effort in acquiring what he/she already has.

Enchanting Items:
Since I’m trying to increase the ‘WOW’ factor of magic items and since you won’t be able to wander into any store in Midkemia and pick up a Flaming Sword +8, the issue of Enchanting Items needs to be addressed.

It makes no sense to add an element of chance to being able to find an item in a certain city, or lobbying your party members to take a detour to a place you KNOW carries a huge selection of ranged weapons if a party member can just whip you up something out of thin air given enough residuum. So, regarding Enchanting Items – you can still do it, but in a very few number of places in the world.

There will be Places of Power throughout the world – only four are known, but there is always a chance you may discover one. More may be already known, but imagine the power held by a person who knows of a Place of Power and is able to keep it secret. One of the most famously known Places of Power is at Stardock, the island magician’s academy. Others are more obscure.

It is thought that all of the various magical items in the world were at some point created at the Places of Powers, but no one knows for certain. In order to enchant an item, you must have the base item, the residuum, and be located within the rune circle at the Place of Power.

 

[CCamfield]

"You can sometimes buy magic items just as you can mundane equipment. It's rare to find a shop or bazaar that routinely sells magic items, except perhaps the lowest-level items. Some fantastic places, such as the legendary City of Brass in the heart of the Elemental Plane, have such markets, but those are the exception rather than the rule." (4e PHB, p223)

It seems to me that your whole rules construct is based on some sort of custom for playing 4e, that at least isn't represented in PHB.

On the other hand, restricting magic item creation to Places of Power seems pretty harsh.

And, I don't think the game is balanced around the players getting useless or truly random items any more. There's a presumption that the players are going to find items which are useful to them. Of course, if you do ensure that, then their need to actually buy items is lower. If you ensured they got ALL the items they wanted through acquisition while adventuring, then presumably you wouldn't actually need to provide them with any way to buy items.

 

[Markn]

Interesting spin. Not my cup of tea, but mechanically I don't see anything seriously wrong with your idea.

Looking at this through the eyes of a player, I see 2 things. First, I would NOT take the Enchant Item feat. Basically, as a player, I would have to have a certain amount of trust with you (the DM) that if I took this feat, it would be worthwhile. If you didn't give me the warm fuzzies that this feat would be some benefit (such as being able to find or go to these places where I can make use of the feat from time to time) I wouldn't take it. Even if you did, since 4e allows retraining, I'd likely not take it until you introduced a place like that. Second, as a DM you can probably expect a LOT of rolls for players looking for items. Player 1 rolls, doesn't find it, asks player 2 to go look, with other players repeating the request.

Other than that, I can't see any impact on character planning/creation. Due to availability and markup on the black market you may find characters a tad less powerful (not that this is a bad thing!) but it can be made up for with smart character building.

 

[Markn]

If you ensured they got ALL the items they wanted through acquisition while adventuring, then presumably you wouldn't actually need to provide them with any way to buy items.

Not entirely true. IME, players tend to want to buy some low level items to fill the available slots that haven't been taken. Even if you are buying something 10 levels lower, it can have a profound impact in the right circumstances. Of course, if you are purchasing something that much lower, paying the extra cost on the black market won't be an issue.

 

[DracoSuave]

Interesting house rule, but most of it seems a way to codify the 'DM, use your common sense' rule that's already in place.

The thing is, if these items are so special-rare then you might want to add in the special boons rules from the DMG2, so that 'stuff' isn't the focus of the game's, well... stuff.

 

[bobcat_grad]

"You can sometimes buy magic items just as you can mundane equipment. It's rare to find a shop or bazaar that routinely sells magic items, except perhaps the lowest-level items. Some fantastic places, such as the legendary City of Brass in the heart of the Elemental Plane, have such markets, but those are the exception rather than the rule." (4e PHB, p223)

It seems to me that your whole rules construct is based on some sort of custom for playing 4e, that at least isn't represented in PHB.

The reason I put together what I did is to put the chance to find something into the hands of the player, not me. If I use the "DM makes the decision if this place carries that" then I am either too easy when I tell them, "Sure your found it" or I'm the bad guy for denying it to them.

This way - they have a chance, and it's based on their roll, not my whim.

 

[bobcat_grad]

Interesting spin. Not my cup of tea, but mechanically I don't see anything seriously wrong with your idea.

Looking at this through the eyes of a player, I see 2 things. First, I would NOT take the Enchant Item feat. Basically, as a player, I would have to have a certain amount of trust with you (the DM) that if I took this feat, it would be worthwhile. If you didn't give me the warm fuzzies that this feat would be some benefit (such as being able to find or go to these places where I can make use of the feat from time to time) I wouldn't take it. Even if you did, since 4e allows retraining, I'd likely not take it until you introduced a place like that. Second, as a DM you can probably expect a LOT of rolls for players looking for items. Player 1 rolls, doesn't find it, asks player 2 to go look, with other players repeating the request.

Other than that, I can't see any impact on character planning/creation. Due to availability and markup on the black market you may find characters a tad less powerful (not that this is a bad thing!) but it can be made up for with smart character building.

Honestly, in this world, there aren't a lot of PCs (or NPCs) that are able to enchant items at all. So, if they don't take the feat, then that's more in-line with the world. If they do, I will make it apparent where the 'known' Places of Power are and I will make sure they come across some on their adventure.

Also - regarding the 'players just keep rolling over and over for an item they're looking for' issue. They can't, that's covered in the stated house rule. If player A looks for it, and doesn't find it, he has two options. 1) Have a party member chip in their Streetwise to look on the Black Market (if the settlement has one) or 2) Wait the stated 'restock' time for that settlement (anywhere from a couple of days to a few weeks).

 

[Fanaelialae]

I expect the AV Ritual Transfer Enchantment might be popular under these rules. That's assuming that it doesn't also require a place of power (which isn't a limitation I'd apply since it's a great way to, for the most part, excise the concept of "useless magic items").

I think your system is already set up for this, but you'd definitely want to avoid allowing separate rolls for alternate placements of the same enchantment (the roll for a Flame Dagger fails so the player continues to roll for Flame Weapon X, intending to transfer the enchantment to a dagger asap).

 

[bobcat_grad]

I think your system is already set up for this, but you'd definitely want to avoid allowing separate rolls for alternate placements of the same enchantment (the roll for a Flame Dagger fails so the player continues to roll for Flame Weapon X, intending to transfer the enchantment to a dagger asap).

I'm tempted to allow this and see how long before a player figures out they could do this.

 

[DracoSuave]

The game is pretty dependant on them getting the items they want and need for their characters as part of its design.

If you're trying to increase the 'WOW' factor of magic items, then setting a random roll on whether you can get utility stuff like potions might not be the right way to go. Making randomfail for getting relatively unexciting magic items doesn't -add- excitment and interest in the items, it actually makes those moments of randomfail sting just a little more.

Not to mention, when you hand the Cleric a hammer and he goes 'Wow. Not a Crusading hammer.' the dieroll fail to get the stuff he feels he -needs- might cause a lot of dissatisfaction.

If the idea is to make certain places centers where items are available, and reduce their availability outside that, then 'Why do you think there'd be a shop for +6 Godplate in this tiny fishing village? You figure that if -anywhere- you could find some at the Bizarre of Wonders in Sigil's Lower Ward, I mean, you've been there before, and can trek there again.' should be a good enough answer. It's not a dissapointment, and it doesn't give the promise of dissapointing luckfail in the future. It's a 'Not now, but here you can' that the players can rely on.

As for the Enchant Magic Item issue, many DMs don't bother to ration out spell components or use the system as provided, and that leads heavily to this problem.

But, the idea of fonts of power is a good one, altho personally, I'd make it level-specific. So once you, say, outlevel the item by 5 or so (an arbitrary number) then the power of the character is great enough that they don't need a font of power, as they've outclassed such mortal concerns.

But that's just me.