Player journal a.k.a. Discussion of Rules

[ciaran00]

I wanted an opinion of the hivemind on this particular issue springing from my game:

• The last game, my players ran into two horsemen who were willing to share information they had (information the players would want) in exchange for "extracting" from one of the players. "Extraction" obtains memories from a target's brain and though it is perpetrated as 'harmless' it does indeed destroy some memories in the process. The player that volunteered for it was warned of this heinous side effect by the others and went ahead. After it happened, I was suddenly informed that the character was going to regain her memories by reading the notes the player was taking. It was argued that I was "told" that the aforementioned notes were "Character X's notes" and therefore I should have known.
• I ruled that "Character X's notes" is about as explicit as "Character X's character sheet" which does not indicate a sheet of her own stats in Character X's hand. Furthermore, since these notes were being scribbled down by the player when Character X was busy fighting, talking, or any other strenous activity, they couldn't possibly be (accurate as they are) Character X's own notes. (Note that everyone in my game takes notes).
• After mulling it over post-game I decided that Character X couldn't have notes in a capacity that would automatically make her immune to any number of effects that rob her of her memory in some capacity. The other players have already been using a mechanic of making Int checks when they come across previous notes a character has scribbled down in order to contexually understand them.

My issues are this:

• I don't want to get into so involved a debate on mechanics with my players. Is this a legitimate DM request?
• I certainly think that I can exclude certain things from the game, though legitimate ruin the flavour of the game. For example, I don't fortify all my NPCs with all the defenses they should have in a given situation-- this would make encounters difficult, tedious, and more involved than fun. Do I need to explicitly explain these reasonings with players? This one is a concern because it ends up with a 1 vs. 3 situation and it's aggravating to argue with 3 people together (especially since I'm only 1).
• Does anyone think that I'm out on a limb with the journal issue?

Thanks for your opinions.

EDIT: Could someone move this to the General Discussion forum? Thanks...

ciaran

 

[Coredump]

I agree with you. The character could not have written those notes. Now, if they stated that they wrote them at night while camping...maybe. But then I would only let them do it at night. Plus they could be used by bad guys/captors at some point. Or be destroyed, etc.

Does the character know how to read/write?

Plus I don't like the fact that the player seems to want to 'get away with something' by not mentioning using the notes until afterwards, not cool.

I would, actually, erase those portions of the notes that are no longer part of the character knowledge. To me the notes are a reminder to the player of what the character knows/remembers. The player needs the help, since he didn't actually experience it.

Further, even reading them won't make them memories again, it isn't like restoring a computer disk. Now, if everyday he said he was studying the missing parts...maybe...after a long time. But then again, how will he know which are the missing parts?

Good Luck.

 

[Zad]

Hm.

I'm the note taker for our main game. And even though I wrote it, I usually have to go back and look things up. The character may have a journal, and that may help them with some lost memories, but I'd require the player to actually keep notes. If they do, they get a success on the int check automatically if their notes cover the topic at hand. If they don't mention the item, then the int check applies.

But they don't get to just say "my character keeps a journal" and not actually do it themselves.

To answer your questions:

1. The objective is to have fun. You don't think the mechanics debate is fun. I would express this to them in those terms and I think they'll have a hard time arguing that a mechanics debate is fun. Additionally, you're the DM, this is the world and you have to do some things and the mechanics are not open for debate. Or at least not in the retroactive sense. If they want to say "Hm. In the future could I keep a journal and would that help?" and you could answer them. But they can't reactively backfill.

2. You're the DM. You can exclude whatever you want. In fairness you should, where possible, tell players what you're excluding. (i.e if you're excluding a certain spell from the game, tell them. But if it's an obscure point of mechanics, you can't be expected to evaluate each one.)

3. See above.

4. To be honest, I'd avoid memory loss things in a game. It really mucks up the works and makes things hard to deal with the player knowledge vs character knowledge issue.

 

[Nifft]

Map the Memory Drain out mechanically -- cost them some ranks of Craft, Profession and/or Knowlege, or take one point of Int or Wisdom. Make a table and base what you actually take off of a die roll, with a chance for taking nothing -- no ill effect.

If you have players who can't handle a penalty that they must RP, take from them what they can't avoid.

-- N

 

[Nine Hands]

I wanted an opinion of the hivemind on this particular issue springing from my game:

• The last game, my players ran into two horsemen who were willing to share information they had (information the players would want) in exchange for "extracting" from one of the players. "Extraction" obtains memories from a target's brain and though it is perpetrated as 'harmless' it does indeed destroy some memories in the process. The player that volunteered for it was warned of this heinous side effect by the others and went ahead. After it happened, I was suddenly informed that the character was going to regain her memories by reading the notes the player was taking. It was argued that I was "told" that the aforementioned notes were "Character X's notes" and therefore I should have known.
• I ruled that "Character X's notes" is about as explicit as "Character X's character sheet" which does not indicate a sheet of her own stats in Character X's hand. Furthermore, since these notes were being scribbled down by the player when Character X was busy fighting, talking, or any other strenous activity, they couldn't possibly be (accurate as they are) Character X's own notes. (Note that everyone in my game takes notes).
• After mulling it over post-game I decided that Character X couldn't have notes in a capacity that would automatically make her immune to any number of effects that rob her of her memory in some capacity. The other players have already been using a mechanic of making Int checks when they come across previous notes a character has scribbled down in order to contexually understand them.

My issues are this:

• I don't want to get into so involved a debate on mechanics with my players. Is this a legitimate DM request?
• I certainly think that I can exclude certain things from the game, though legitimate ruin the flavour of the game. For example, I don't fortify all my NPCs with all the defenses they should have in a given situation-- this would make encounters difficult, tedious, and more involved than fun. Do I need to explicitly explain these reasonings with players? This one is a concern because it ends up with a 1 vs. 3 situation and it's aggravating to argue with 3 people together (especially since I'm only 1).
• Does anyone think that I'm out on a limb with the journal issue?

Thanks for your opinions.

EDIT: Could someone move this to the General Discussion forum? Thanks...

ciaran

I like this idea and I'll probably steal it for my own campaign. Now here is a question. Does the character have any interests outside of the people he adventures with? Family, friends, lovers, etc? If so, make him forget one of them. Heck, if the character is in love with someone, make that go away, followed by a strange, hollow feeling when he meets up with his lover. Work towards causing emotional pain for the characters

 

[Stalker0]

Think of it like memento, sure you can take notes, and sure they'll help a little... but there not as good as real memories.

One thing you didn't mention (I don't know if you did in game or not) is that the memories have to be past ones Make them future ones... so at a future date, ask the player to leave the room. Have the player's do something (but the player's character there the whole time).

Then have the player come back, give him a few notes-- since they are as good as real memories -- and go from there.

 

[stevelabny]

or allow the player to read his own notes.
then give the character some important knowledge that will cause a lot of trouble if it ever fell into the hands of big bad evil guy.
then have the bbeg steal the character's notes.
its not a good idea to write everything down in character.

or dump him in some water and ruin his notes.

or set his camp on fire, burning his notes.

etc etc.