Player Knowledge greater than DM knowledge syndrome

[ellestar]

I just ran a session, and it was fun (although too slow to start with, but that's a completely different story), but I ran into a rather severe problem along the way.

The campaign is set in the Greyhawk campaign setting, and one of my players is playing an elven lord of some power. He has written a very extensive background story, and for that I praise him. He is a skilled roleplayer, and a very valued member of the group.

During the session, his character teleported to Celene, which is his homeland, to conduct bussiness with his family and some contacts there. I was literally stumped at what to do here. He had a long list of names and people of importance he knew and who they knew and so on which he handed me, and I felt as if he expected of me to "do something big" out of all this.

Is there such a thing as too much player knowledge? Well, that was a pretty stupid question; what is too much player knowledge? And any tips on how I can remedy this. I guess too much is alot better than too little background story, but should I really "forced" to run the show after his notes?

As I said earlier, I really don't mind the extensive background and all that, and I have told him outside the game that there will be some "story arcs" set in Celene (his homeland) and that he shouldn't worry about that.

Help me!

 

[Planesdragon]

Ok, get yourself some system to keep track of all those NPCs. I recommend index cards, but that's because I've got a stack of them shouting "use me, use me!"

Have your player tell you if there are ANY references he has that he expects you to know about, and have him track them down for you. If he had any preconcieved notions about how your things work, you should have him tell you now.

Once you have that, you've got as much knowledge as he has--and from then on out, make sure that he knows that your word is THE word. If you say that Aragorn is a fiendish bastard not worthty of being king, then Aragorn is a fiendish bastard not worthy of being king--no matter what Tolkien had to say on the matter.

Don't be afraid to ad-lib, either. Just keep notes, write everyting important down, and if you mess up don't be afraid to say "what was that name again?"


And on a different note: don't let any one player dominate the game.

 

[Chimera]

I'd have to second what Planesdragon says, and add a little.

'Remember' or 'Think of' the information that he has given you about these NPCs as being from his character's perspective. Not necessarily the true feelings, motives or intentions of the NPCs themselves. He might think Sally the Wonder Dog is hopelessly in love with him, that Alalala his sister is fanatically loyal, but maybe, just maybe, they're not. He just thinks they are, he's deluding himself, or perhaps they're only acting that way because they have ulterior motives.

I'd also caution against allowing him to create all the NPCs and relationships on his own. All too easy for him to set up his little paradise without any problems or opposition. You should be in there as well, adding those problems and opposition. In his list he never mentions Ullu the Bold who holds power in Uggabugga and hates his guts, or the fact that Ullu is a suitor to his sister Alalala... That sort of thing.

 

[Malin Genie]

It isn't fair for the pplayer to dump this on you in the middle of a session.

Done right, however (i.e. giving you some notes on who his character knows, and what he thinks he knows about them at the end of a session, giving you some time to prepare before the next one) it can be a great opportunity for him to Rp and you to introduce interesting plot hooks and arcs.

After all, you are the Dm, and what he thinks he knows of his contacts isn't necessarily the truth - or at least not necessarily the whole truth.... Presumably they are people with their own motivations, and while they may be willing to help their 'childhood friend' they may want things in return, or have secret agendas that an adventurer might be just perfect to use for....

 

[ellestar]

Thanks for the advice. I am especially fond of the notion that what the player has written down is merely what his character percieves things as. Lots of untapped plot hook potential suddenly reared its head.

And on a different note: don't let any one player dominate the game.

The note might not be quite as different after all. I mentioned that the adventure got off to a slow start, and this was in part cause of the players wishes to go to Celene and go through all the motions with most of his family and contacts there. This really achieved nothing (of course, the possibility that the player thinks this is fun is always there, looks like he enjoyed it, so it's not all bad, not at all..), except take the spotlight for a good 30-40 minutes. All the spotlight. The other players were sitting in darkness (3.0 darkness, not the pansy 3.5 version, mind you), merely observing this stuck up elf their characters are travelling with sucking up to and being sucked up to by half of Celene.

I will work on/with the situation. I guess I have no other choice than to be thankful that he actually has a decent background story, and just suck it up. More ideas are of course welcome.

 

[Destil]

My question is: Was his little trip relevent to the game at hand? Was he getting infromation or anything that would be useful to the rest of the session?

If it wasn't then it shouldn't have been handled at the table at all. Idealy you could just give him a very brief summary of what happens "You spend four hours conversion with your family" and if you want later go into E-Mail or something for the detail.

If it's not going to be relevent to a game session I wouldn't be afraid to skip or skim over part of a game, evem moreso if it's just one PC and the rest are sitting around bored.

 

[Morrus]

During the session, his character teleported to Celene, which is his homeland, to conduct bussiness with his family and some contacts there. I was literally stumped at what to do here. He had a long list of names and people of importance he knew and who they knew and so on which he handed me, and I felt as if he expected of me to "do something big" out of all this.

It isn't fair for the pplayer to dump this on you in the middle of a session.

I agree. What does he expect from you? You're a human being, not an instantaneous game-generating super-machine! And you're certainly not there to suddenly dance to his tune.

I'd have just said "thanks" and put it aside, ignoring it for the rest of the session. Maybe I'd have looked at it before the next session, maybe not. I'd also have suggested to him that he approach you long before the session next time he wants to do something like this, and go over the options with you.

 

[Taneel BrightBlade]

I hate these kind of things, tell him to tell you ahead of time next time.

 

[DiFier]

The solution to the problem of hogging the spotlight is the fade. As he is talking to Lord Raol in Celene fade to the other charachters. Have them do some stuff, continue with the adventure ect. remember to fade back so he doesn't also feel left out. there is nothing wrong with a little solo adventuring in fact it is gonna happen. sometimes parties must split up.

The problem is if the player is doing this specifically so that he gets the spot light. You know the player. He/She needs to be the center of attention. Wonders off alone to explore the cave. I've run into a few players that always do stuff on their own so that they have the full DM's attention. There are a couple of solutions. have the player write a story (which you approve) on what happened when he teleported to city X or when he wondered off during the night. you could also have the player write up what they do during down time.

If that doesn't work You could also use the "I'll get back to you later" or just tell the player what happens when he/she wonders off. Say O.K. and continue playing with the other charachters. Occasionally give updates on what the charachter is doing, "you just met with Lord Raol and he is as much of a bore as ever he will extend your contracts." if he wonders off at night (everyone says "lets go to bed" and he says "once they all fall asleep I'm gonna explore the city") again you tell him what happened. (but he is fatigued in the morning) another solution, is to attack the remaining party. he'll be sitting not doing anything (and not gaining XP) They'll be hurt. the wondering player will come back and they'll be angry with him.

I've also seen players doing this sort of thing and being disruptive say "I was roleplaying that is what my charachter would do" ("I'm chaotic neutral of course I'd kick the high priest's dog") Perhaps that is true but warn that player that you expect the other players and NPC to rolepaly too. They should (and will) do things as their charachter would and not as a player to insure unity. The adventure follows the majority if he/she keeps wondering off the group might roleplay that they think he is unreliable and leave with out him or next adventure find them selves another wizard. or the high priest might be angry that he/she kicked his dog and the party will not back him/her up when the high priest smacks him with his mace.

This solution can lead to another problem, the offending player will have their charachter stay with the party most of the time but will try to dominate all situations. at least all the palyers are playing together now. that is another thread.

This is a game with many players. it is sorta like a movie but the DM controls the camera.

 

[Janx]

Are you the regular DM?
Was the party playing experienced PCs?

My point on those two questions is, traditionally, starting off at level one, unless somebody has a feat for Contacts, NOBODY starts the game with a page of contacts and ongoing business negotiations. Especially none that you don't already know about.

It sounds like you had an existing character join your game, and he's trying to flex his background muscle on you. The responses to glaze over those side-treks are probably the best advice. That way you don't have to run them with little prep, and you actually don't contradict much of his perceptions of those characters. Works for both sides.

It's a tough challenge knowing how to detect that someone's getting too much attention, but when you do, it's time to either cut scene or glaze over the details.

Now I thought you were going to ask about when Players know more than the DM. Such as the player who knows every FR supplement by heart and is playing under a DM who knows enough about FR to run the current adventure. Those are the kind of players who keep dropping trivia about the world, and contradicting the DM's description:
DM: So you all go to Azeem's Weapon shop
Player: Azeem? There's only one weapon shop in Baldur's Gate, and that's So&SO's.

Janx