Player who can't get the numbers right

[Wolfwood2]

My original longer post somehow got eaten so here is a smaller version.

It is quite likely she will never get it right and it doesn't matter what her class/feats/equipment/level is. From my own experience she could make tick marks on her sheet and forget to erase them, pick up a shield and forget you can't get the AC bonus with a 2 handed weapon, has kids/family/job and wont remember from week to week because she's there to socialize, is overwhelmed by levelling too fast, thus her numbers change before she can get used to them. The list goes on and on and there is probably nothing you can do about it.

You need to figure out how you'll handle it. That's my take.

You're absolutely right that she's never going to get it. I've been playing with her for over a year in various D&D games. It's not a matter of needing more time. She just has a lousy memory and cannot get to the point where this stuff is intuitive for her. It's not even that she's too busy, because I know she's not. She can memorize the same fact a 100 times and forget it a 100 times. End of story.

I was in an abortive Shadowrun 4E game with her, which we abandoned at her admission that she would never, ever, ever be able to remember the rules and didn't like the system.

As for handling it, I just need to be more considerate about when I open my mouth to comment on her handling of game mechanics. That's the only solution.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Clear, concise character sheets. List every MAJOR attack option on the sheet: full attack, attack w/move, etc. Use BIG BOLD CAPS to name them.

Each option is split into columns. First column has the total. (use the standard notation for iterative attacks) Big numbers, easy to see, right next to the name of the action to which it refers. Next columns have the general type of bonuses (I'd recommend: magic, stat, level, item) that add up to that total.

Colour code them with highlighters even.

Do yourself up a character sheet that does this, use it at the table and show off how easy it is to use. MAybe it'll catch on, maybe not.

If it doesn't catch her eye then I'd butt out and let the lady play the game and enjoy herself.

cheers, Glen

 

[Tewligan]

I really wish she'd just tell me off when I push too hard. You'd think that a 50-something Navy veteran wouldn't be shy, and it wouldn't offend me to be cussed out. She just grits her teeth in frustration a lot, though.

Well, if you KNOW it frustrates her, why the hell do you need her to tell you to stop? Rather than bugging her and hoping she'll tell you what you already know, just don't do it in the first place.

By the way, I didn't even answer the "does it give me a dexterity bonus" question. I wandered off to the snack table and let the rest of the table answer it. I've got no desire to be her personal rules police.

Just her personal math police? Seriously, refusing to answer her rules questions is kind of dicky in light of the fact that you monitor her math and then call her out on it, don't you think?

 

[Felix]

I teach English and coach rowing. Mike has a PhD in Physics; he's a scientist; he works with rockets; the boom-your-city's-rubble kind; he's a rocket scientist.

We have been gaming for 7 years now and I know his attack bonuses, situational modifiers, feats, weapons, and damage dice better than he does. God help the party when he plays an archer: "Let's see, that's an 11, plus 5, plus 1, minus 3, mumblemumble, 28! Do I hit? Great, I roll damage! 3d8... no sorry, 2d8, each one +3, add that, that also-* no, too far away ... carry the 1 ... 57! Can I cleave?"

Somehow D&D math just doesn't stick to his brain. He doesn't know which dice to roll, which modifiers to use... he's a mess.

And an awesome guy to have at the table.

But for some reason, the math doesn't stick. I'd say your lady has the same issue. Hey man, not everyone gets it. Ask her what she wants to do about it; Mike is happy being made fun of and occasionally corrected, but I suspect she could have some input on how you act towards her.

 

[Wandering Star]

I guess I can see how this might get frustrating, but seriously, learn to relax! Probably makes her anxious knowing she has everybody there just WAITING for her to make a mistake.

Let the numbers blend into the background and let her have fun smashing things and playing the game.

Absolutely

"Let's see, that's an 11, plus 5, plus 1, minus 3, mumblemumble, 28! Do I hit? Great, I roll damage! 3d8... no sorry, 2d8, each one +3, add that, that also-* no, too far away ... carry the 1 ... 57! Can I cleave?"

I'm still lauging at this!

 

[Delta]

2) Who am I to have someone audit her character sheet? If she wanted someone to audit her sheet, presumably she'd just ask.

Isn't it easier to be proactive and deal with this one time per level, on the sheet, than replay the same scenario over and over with every attack roll? If other players also have to correct her, ask them, or ask the DM to require it.

Also suggest writing on the sheet one line that includes all the different attack/damage stuff for when Rage is active.

Further option: Have the DM track her bonuses and do the math on his side of the table. Have her just report the raw d20 rolls. Uncommon now, but that's how it was done in the old-old days (when to-hit & save charts were reserved for the DM's book, etc.)

 

[Fenes]

I'd handle such a situation like this: The player says what he/she wants to do, the DM tells him/her what dice to roll, and does the math him/herself. It allows players to play without memorizing the rules, and often, to roleplay more intuitively since they don't start to metagame based upon game rules knowledge.

 

[Cisticola]

I'd handle such a situation like this: The player says what he/she wants to do, the DM tells him/her what dice to roll, and does the math him/herself. It allows players to play without memorizing the rules, and often, to roleplay more intuitively since they don't start to metagame based upon game rules knowledge.

This is the easiest way round this problem.....I have all my players stats written down and do the maths for them......and the game runs very smoothly.

Occasionally I get it wrong........which does amuse everyone......hey, no ones perfect

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I'm with the "move somewhere else where you can't see her dice" school of thought, unless you can find a way to help her get everything clearer.

Maybe if you phrased it along the lines of "I love gaming with you, but I know that you struggle with the rules and I struggle with you struggling - so do you want to spend half an hour going through your character sheet to make it as clear as possible for you? Anything that's preventing you from enjoying the game is obviously bad, so let's see if we can make it better."

 

[Wolfwood2]

Well, if you KNOW it frustrates her, why the hell do you need her to tell you to stop? Rather than bugging her and hoping she'll tell you what you already know, just don't do it in the first place.

Because I'm a bad person sometimes, and I place the needs of others inferior to my own desires. Why does anybody do things they know will tick other people off?

Just her personal math police? Seriously, refusing to answer her rules questions is kind of dicky in light of the fact that you monitor her math and then call her out on it, don't you think?

It was a general question directed at the table, not at me, so it's not like I was walking off in the middle of a conversation.

But yes, I can on occasion be a very dicky person.