Player's build is to strong?

[Thefifthglyph]

This is a build from the character optimization boards on wizard's of the coast's website.

May be a popular build but does not makes it an official one. The logic in the roleplaying factor may also be questioned since it is in the optimization board.

OTOH, I believe that prescient sense specifically says in it's text "this form of evasion...". Additionally I understand that the concept of virtual abilities presented in one of the expansion books (ie - if you have something which is functionally identical to a certain ability, you are treated as though you have that ability) covers it.

"Beginning at 2nd level, if the D.O. makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a succesful save (such as a red dragon's fiery breath or a fireball spell), she instead takes no damage, since her prescience allowed her to go out of the way faster. This form of evasion works no matter what armor the divine oracle wears, unlike the evasion abilities used by monks and rogues." - Complete Divine page 36

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form
[n] a category of things distinguished by some common characteristic or quality -hyperdictionary. com

The essence of something. - dictionary. com

prescience
Knowledge of actions or events before they occur; foresight. - dictionary. com

[n] the power to foresee the future - hyperdictionary. com
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The statement provided compares and differentiates the two abilities. The similarity is the effect having the same essence/common characteristic in taking no damage during a successful reflex save that would normally deal half damage; while the difference points to the use of the ability even on heavier armor(plus the fact it is not STEALTH but FORESIGHT that aided the D.O.). PO does mimic the evasion ability in some ways but in no means the two are identical.

I'm pretty sure if you find the build on the WOTC character optimisation boards, someone will have already hashed this whole thing out and justified it - they may even have a background for it.

Good luck on finding a god. BTW how can a character hide his beliefs from his deity during those 5 levels before he gets to F.L.?

 

[dcollins]

I agree with the posters who disallow multiple prestige classes on one character. It does seem counter to the intent of prestige classes as I read it in the DMG:

Prestige classes allow DMs to create campaign-specific, exclusive roles and positions as classes... Additionally, the character must meet nonrule-related requirements in-game, such as group membership fees, special training exercises, quests, and so forth... Dungeon Masters should use prestige classes as a tool for world-building as well as a reward for achieving high level. They set characters in the milieu and put them in the context of the world.

So I've always understood prestige classes as specifying a particular role in the society and the campaign. You've got to be a dedicated member of a certain group. It must "set the characters in the milieu". It must be an "exclusive role".

I can't imagine any character in multiple prestige classes who satisfies all of these intentions behind the prestige class system. I wouldn't allow any PC to bounce around between prestige classes, as it inherently fails the "exclusive role" test, and also the "use... as a tool for world-building" test.

 

[Bad Paper]

multiple prestige classes

I'm pretty keen on multiple prestige classes. For one thing, it gives you an idea of just...what...to...do...with...all...these...OPTIONS!

I have this Rog2/Wiz7. When I started with him (ahhh, first level!), I had planned him out to the ripe age of level 20 as a Wiz15/Archmage5 or so. Maybe Wiz16/Archmage4. Whatever. Something like that.

Somehow, someone convinced him to grab two levels of Rogue. Then he got killed and reincarnated. And he's going balls-out crazy. (Temple of Elemental Evil, anyone? )

So now the potential 20th level build is:
Rogue 2 (I love evasion. I'll say it again: I LOVE EVASION)
Wizard 10 (evoker)
Blood Magus 4 (gotta do something with that must-have-been-returned-to-life prereq)
Argent Savant 2 (his spell list is duplicating the Force domain anyway, except one spell)
Archmage 2 (a nod to the good old plan. now he's not even an elf anymore.)

I consider this an organic build with plenty of room to grow. I don't plan to add any more PrCs, but I don't think this is munchkinism. Each prestige class is there for a reason, and if he ever makes it past 20th level, he'll just keep tacking on levels to classes he already has. To say "I artificially limit you to X number of classes" is kinda cheap. For one thing, his feats are almost all spoken for. The reason I'm taking him to Wiz10 is just so I can pick up a feat that doesn't get eaten by the PrCs (spell focus, spell focus, skill focus, great fortitude, and oh let's not forget friggin Toughness).

So there. That's what he does...with...all...these...OPTIONS!

OK, so there's one aspect of the munchkin: he's trying to squeeze in all the Will save bonus he can, because his Wisdom is 9. Hence, the tasty +2 at first level granted by three of the classes on that list. But he was rolled! No point-buy, and the rolls weren't that great; they duplicated a 30-point buy, and included a 6.

Of course, the low Wisdom score also works its way into the character development: all this pervasive influence of Tharizdun and whatnot can have quite the effect on a weak-minded elf in a half-orc's body, turning him toward, say, Blood Magus and Argent Savant...

 

[Thanee]

I don't mind multiple prestige classes as long as the whole concept makes sense and is not just pure mechanics.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Druid 1/Bard 4/Divine Oracle 2/Spellsword 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sublime Chord 1/Foluchorian Lyricist 8/Bladesinger 1

Or:

Druid 1/Bard 4/Divine Oracle 2/Spellsword 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sublime Chord 2/Foluchorian Lyricist 8

Well, those are still illegal, since they do not have Evasion.

Also caster level for the Ur-Priest is pretty low, maybe with Practiced Spellcaster they would be able to cast 9th level spells (if the Lyricist levels add directly to the Ur-Priest caster level, which they probably do, otherwise caster level barely reaches 10 or so).

I don't see how you would add ½ the caster level of other classes, it's ½ the *class* level!

While it's true, that you add prestige class levels to other classes' levels to determine spells per day, caster level and so on, they still don't improve the level of the class.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't see how you would add ½ the caster level of other classes, it's ½ the *class* level!

Right - it's the same mistake made in "The Word" build.

-Hyp.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi Everyone,

Forgetting for the moment whether this actual build is legal or not and focusing on the multiple prestige class aspect and min/maxing.

I don't have a problem with this. In fact, I imagine that both a strong background and character concept would be required by such a progression, particularly when you have opposing styles of prestige classes involved. There are elements of redemption and falling from grace involved that are always strong character traits.

As for the min/maxing element, it does not bother me if that's what the player enjoys. A powerful character does not always have to be the center of the gaming group and a good DM will make sure that everyone enjoys their time at the table. As long as everyone's enjoying themselves and having fun, who cares?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[gabrion]

Right - it's the same mistake made in "The Word" build.

-Hyp.

One of.

 

[cmanos]

I smell limburger.....

without looking at the stats in any great detail, I'd say he's min/maxing. Sounds like you need to take him by the hand and explain to him that this is a roleplaying game, not a MMORG where min/maxing keeps you alive.

Also, while I don't mind characters taking more than one PrC, I think other NPC's in those PrC's would be looking at him like a quitter....

"You've been through 7 different professions, none of which you are any good at and now you want to join the Fochluran college? Come back when you have shown a little morededication to any ONE field of study."

 

[cmanos]

I'd also seriously consider saying PrC's are not immune to multiclass XP penalties. If he's gonna try and pull a stunt like that, I'd pull out Rule 0 and say thats the way it's gonna be.