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Players, GMs, and "My character"...

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Remathilis

Legend
"My character wouldn't do that!"

The five words that make every GM's blood run cold. It could be an unbitten adventure hook, a intriguing story twist, or simply a refusal to except the majority vote on which hall to turn down. What we have here is a power-struggle between player and GM, using the only narrative tool a player has; control of his character, to utterly stop any forward momentum the GM may have.

How did we get to this point? How can we prevent it? How can we fix it?

The first two questions are the easiest. Communication is the key. Players using this chestnut are throwing up the emergency handbrake because they don't like where things are going. There should be plenty of opportunity to address this problem BEFORE it get to here. Often times, the GM can explain things "Out of character" and if the player is reasonable, there should be some effort to make concession. If you run a Epic Heroic Romantic game with knights in shining armor and princesses to rescue, tell the player BEFORE he roles up a half-orc assassin! Likewise, if you just bought Module X and your real excited to play it, announce to the group BEFORE the module is run you want to play it and why (without spoiling it, of course) so that the players will bite the adventure hook, even if normally they don't go for "that kinda adventure."

But sometimes, the plot writes itself into a corner. The PCs make a unanticipated turn, and now one or more refuse to go along with it? Now what? I've found that sometimes a GM needs to show his cards a bit to get the player's on board. Like the module scenario above, it gives away a bit of future expectation in exchange for player buy in. (Players are more willing to do risky behavior "for the good of moving things along" if they know they have a reasonable chance of survival.) If things get really heated, that's usually a good time call a session "so the GM can think over his next move" and let cooler heads prevail later.

These are all fine and dandy GM tools, but what about the players? Like all compromise, its about give and take. The first rule of character design is "Never go into a game with a character so developed you have no room to maneuver him." This often comes from character who follow a theme: gruff loner, righteous holy man, sneaky bastard, etc. In any story-telling media; a protagonist is expected to grow; Luke goes from a farm-boy to a Jedi Knight, Frodo leaves his comfortable life to find true heroism and friendship, etc. Be willing for your character to grow in the same vein; if your character is a loner who doesn't like people, why does he hang out in an adventuring party? Does he secretly like these people? Similarly a sneaky bastard can have his heart softened to become a bit more heroic, and a righteous holy man can learn to see more than just what his theology dictates. Never paint yourself so thoroughly that you can't go along with the game.

Again, communication is the key. If the GM prefers heroes and you want an anti-hero; tell him and perhaps a compromise can be reached (said character becomes more heroic as the effects of his heroic allies rub off on him.) Risk-adverse PCs become more daring after some successes. Rash PCs learn some caution by stunning failures. Changing like this deepens the PC and can sometimes turn one-dimensional PC into something more.

The log-jam known as "my character wouldn't do that" can be avoided if both sides are willing to compromise. With some open minds, great games will happen. Good gaming.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
I see the solution as follows:

#1. Players who halt the plot by saying "My character wouldn't do that!" need to take responsibility for starting things moving again. There are three common solutions:
  • Come up with a justification for your character to go along with the plot after all.
  • Make an alternative proposal for what to do and persuade the rest of the party to go with it.
  • In the extreme case, if you can neither justify your character going along nor get the other PCs to accept your alternative, accept that your PC is going to part company with the group and it's time to make a new character.
#2. In the situation that a halted plot is resolved by an alternative proposal as above, the DM needs to be ready to roll with it and improvise as necessary.

I don't think I've ever seen a "My character wouldn't do that!" logjam that could not be resolved by following these rules.
 

Nagol

Unimportant
I had an experience like in this vein as a player of a superhero Champions game.

Four of the six characters were effective immortals. Three had extensive (multiple century) backgrounds.

The GM decided to run a commercially available module that involved time travel.

The gist was a physicist had accidentally thrown himself back in time. Time rifts were appearing and "things" were coming through and being disruptive.

Upon investigation, the PCs were told by an expert in the field that it was difficult or impossible for the same being to simultaneously exist. In the event that were to happen, one or both would probably be vented from the universe into a parallel space. What would happen to half the team when we went back? What would happen to the other immortal as he aged into himself naturally? These questions couldn't be answered.

The team decided to protect the wife of the physicist and research what damage, if any he caused the time stream. It appeared that he became the head of a fading defence contract company, willed a bunch of cash to his erstwhile wife, and may have contributed to a 6-month quicker ending to WWII. There was a debate whether we SHOULD do anything or simply treat the incident as the husband was killed in research and the wife receiving payment for his unfortunate incident. Regardless, one of the immortals was going to get basic training on the equipment and stay behind while the wife was sent home if we decided to meddle with the timestream.

This destroyed the module and the campaign folded.

Apparently, the heroes were expected to jump into the time travel device and have it operated by the wife right off the bat. The device, being unstable, explodes killing her. The time rifts are the response of the physicist, upon hearing about his wife's death, against those he holds responsible.

Without the stimulus of her death, he wouldn't cause the rifts.

Could the campaign have been salvaged? Absolutely. The GM in question wasn't experienced enough to roll with and control the developing situation.

The huge problem buried in the module was the conceit the future behaviour of the PCs was predictable and controllable to the point of basing current events around future behaviour.
 

Dausuul

Legend
The huge problem buried in the module was the conceit the future behaviour of the PCs was predictable and controllable to the point of basing current events around future behaviour.

Indeed. Extremely poor module writing compounded by DM inexperience.

It's fine for PCs to say "Our characters wouldn't do that!" as long as it's promptly followed by "We'd do this instead." Dealing with this situation is the central challenge of GMing; indeed, it's why we have GMs in the first place. If PCs always did what the adventure-designer expected of them, there would be no need for a human being to run the game.

That said, it would be quite a job to salvage the situation you describe... writing good, flexible modules is hard enough without trying to build in causal loops as well.
 
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Greg K

Legend
"My character wouldn't do that!"

The five words that make every GM's blood run cold. .

Not, necessarily. there are times when it just does not make sense for a character to do something. Depending upon the style of game being run, this can be a good thing. It can lead to interesting character interactions, side stories that run parallel, the end of a particular character's story (if the character reached their goal and no longer has a reason to adventure).

The GMs the I know (myself include) will accept and work with it provided that it is based on the character's past actions and/or background or the player can give a reasonable in character explaination why based on other experiences the character has had in game. If it truly makes sense that the character would not do it

1. We ask what would your player do in this situation?
2. If necessary, we will split the party and let our improvisational skills go to work to create a little side adventure or parralel storyline. The player gets no more allotted screen time than they would have as a player and then we try to work them back in at a later time.

Only once did we have a player do it to be a douche. The player in question had already been a problem. One DM kept him because they were good friends. The DM tailored the game to the player's style to avoid complaints (then, when the DM tailored it to everyone else, the guy whined and complained when there was no combat). The other DM put up with the player, because the DM mentioned above was his best friend and the guy was a friend and kind of cool out of cool, but after numerous warnings the DM got fed up and kicked him out when the player did it just, because his style was not being catered to and nearly got the entire party killed by performing a blatantly evil action.

Now, as mentioned, communication before character creation can head off some things. However, as for modules, unless running a one shot or series of one shots or characters have all bought into an adventure path, imo, the DM should be tailoring the module or adventure to the group they have. Tie it to character motivations, have clues or objects tied to character goals, change NPCs, etc. If you can't, don't use it or have other options ready. As the 3.0 DMG states, no designer knows your players and their PCs better than you. Tailor them to fit into your game.
 
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The Shaman

First Post
My mix tape of the thread so far.
The first rule of character design is "Never go into a game with a character so developed you have no room to maneuver him." . . . Never paint yourself so thoroughly that you can't go along with the game.
The huge problem buried in the module was the conceit the future behaviour of the PCs was predictable and controllable to the point of basing current events around future behaviour.
It's fine for PCs to say "Our characters wouldn't do that!" as long as it's promptly followed by "We'd do this instead."
All of this advice belongs in game books.
 


billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
<snip>

This destroyed the module and the campaign folded.

Apparently, the heroes were expected to jump into the time travel device and have it operated by the wife right off the bat. The device, being unstable, explodes killing her. The time rifts are the response of the physicist, upon hearing about his wife's death, against those he holds responsible.

Without the stimulus of her death, he wouldn't cause the rifts.

Could the campaign have been salvaged? Absolutely. The GM in question wasn't experienced enough to roll with and control the developing situation.

The huge problem buried in the module was the conceit the future behaviour of the PCs was predictable and controllable to the point of basing current events around future behaviour.

I can see what you mean about that adventure having the problem of unusual heroes acting in a reasonable but non-genre manner as a result. As far as salvaging the situation, a good way could have been time paradoxic. The wife dies because of one of the time rifts the physicist creates that happens to appear shortly after she leaves the company of the heroes. That's one of the fun bits of time travel paradox, the time traveler becomes the cause of his own response. But I can totally see where a relatively inexperienced GM might get flustered by the situation and not come up with that solution.
 

Diamond Cross

Banned
Banned
I have known a player who used this to be entirely disruptive to the game. Every time the party decided to go one way, he'd not go that way and force the party to go the way he wanted. Eventually we stopped going the way he wanted, and he got his character killed. He blamed the people and started berating us, so he was asked to not come to the game sessions again.
 

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