Players really want the Necromancer? (Forked: Non-published concepts you want)

[roguerouge]

The side argument about whether or not Necromancers / corpse animation would distress the peasantfolk would probably be more relevant in a non-4E game where the signature adventurer on the PHB cover isn't visibly and unapologetically descended from fiends from hell.

Yeah, as I've mentioned, the warlock presents some problems along those lines.

 

[hamishspence]

Strictly, not descended from, altered by pacts with.

That said, argument is valid.

What about the Karrnath prestige class from Eberron? That was intended to combine paladin with undead-ish.

 

[Kesh]

My only concern is that, turning "Make Army of Undead Ritual" means that Pcs can use it too.

Then you have problems.

Not really, no. Take a look at Elder Arantham in Dragon #364's article "The Ashen Covenant." His return to sanctum power depends on a specialized ritual he knows to set the destination for the teleport.

Now, if you want to, you could let the PC's find his ritual book and learn the ritual itself, but that's not necessary. Especially if the ritual involves sacrificing puppies, or something.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

That said, argument is valid.

No, it's not. Debates don't work that way. You don't just shrug and say "Well, irregardless of all your proof that it's wrong, the argument is valid."

You have to tell us why the argument is valid.

 

[Ahglock]

No, it's not. Debates don't work that way. You don't just shrug and say "Well, irregardless of all your proof that it's wrong, the argument is valid."

You have to tell us why the argument is valid.

1. I am not sure I'd call this a debate.

2. He basically said, I'm nit-picking but the general idea you said is supported by either your initial statement or my correction.

So if you want to see why his argument is valid go see the initial post, which explains that once you have demons creatures and pacts with devils, things like animating the dead don't really seem to fit in the too evil for players to do category anymore. Since comparatively it isn't worse than what is already there.

 

[OneWinged4ngel]

Do the people that want them expect to be able to play them?

I know *I* sure as hell do. I've used necromancy in literally dozens of PC characters.

 

[Tervin]

For the 4E campaign that I am planning, the one thing that causes the most problem right now is the lack of necromancer support. My world as I see it has quite a few good or unaligned necromancers. I can easily make NPC necromancers from what is released so far, but it feels a bit unfair not to allow PCs to choose that path.

Oh, I will want Druids and Bards as well, but they are probably not as common... (especially not the druids).

 

[ProfessorCirno]

1. I am not sure I'd call this a debate.

2. He basically said, I'm nit-picking but the general idea you said is supported by either your initial statement or my correction.

So if you want to see why his argument is valid go see the initial post, which explains that once you have demons creatures and pacts with devils, things like animating the dead don't really seem to fit in the too evil for players to do category anymore. Since comparatively it isn't worse than what is already there.

Maybe I read it wrong, but I picked up there that he thought summon undead was STILL too evil even after you take demon creatures and pacts with devils into account.

If I read it wrong, then yeah, the mistake is definately on my shoulders.

 

[hectorse]

So I had this idea for a necromancer class, maybe it's one way to represent the idea of the necromancer class

Class Feature: Undead Entourage

You have x number of undead dancing and walking along you. Some find this disgusting, you find it amusing or not find it anything special at all.

This group of undead give you access to powers with the PET description

A level 1 Undead Entourage has the following stats:

1 large minion, 10hp, x attack, AC, Will, Fort, Ref, etc.

(goes up with level, and every few levels you change the type of undead, from animal skeletons, to animal zombies, to human skeletons to human zombies, to ghouls to whatever)

Class Feature: Repair and Raise Undead
At any short-rest you may spend a healing surge but regain no HP. Instead you cure your undead entourage as if it had gained a healing surge.

If you have no undead entourage left. You may spend 2 healing surges to use some of your shrank remains to replenish it.

Class Ritual: Shrink Remains
The necromancer gains the following ritual without paying its GP cost

Shrink Remains
Time: 3 min
The remains of any number of creatures in a burst 6 shrink to a miniature size easily put into your spell component bag. They may be used now as components for repair and raise undead.
Cost: 50 GP

POWERS

Direct Undead
You direct your undead creatures
Power at will minor action PET, necromancy, arcane
Your entourage moves x squares

Undead Attack
Your undead attack the enemies
Power at will std action, PET, necromancy, arcane
Target: One creature
Effect: Make an attack with the entourage + your int bonus

MAKE COVER, PIECES OF DIRT!
You call your undead to act as a living (lol) wall for you
Power Daily Arcane PET Immediate Interrupt
One Ally at burst 6 of entourage
Effect: Entourage shifts 6 to said ally and provide him with +6 to defenses against one attack. Your Entourage loses 4 hp

BEHIND THEM
Your entourage divides and moves around a target in order to flank them
Power Encounter Move action PET arcane
Effect: Your entourage becomes 2 medium creatures with half the hp of the normal entourage but with the same stats. They then may shift 5 squares.

ENHANCE NECROMANCY
Your undead entourage provides you with more focal points to your next spells
Power Encounter Minor Action PET arcane implement necromancy
Personal
Effect: You receive a +4 power bonus to your next spell attack. Your entourage receives 2 hp damage

Obviously the numbers need to be adjusted but it's what I imagined

 

[carmachu]

There needs to be a Necromancer class, and an Illusionist class. They can stop there; that's all the arcane sub-classes required. (conjurer should go right back into general Wizard where it belongs)

Why shouldnt there be a conjurer? If there is folks that want illusionist and necromancer, why not conjurer? or enchanter for that matter?