D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Paladin ... Divine Smite is a Spell now

[Chaosmancer]

Yes and no. They were bad, but only because you had to cast them before you hit and maintain concentration on them if you missed, meaning that if the creature died before you hit it or you lost concentration, you wasted a spell slot entirely.

The change to make the spells usable after a hit was a good one. That's the only change that needed to happen to make those spells usable and good. Not great, but good.

And it still left you with Divine smite being more damage and no action cost. In addition to the points you keep making about counter-spell, silence, and anti-magic.

So, how can they balance a spell that can be countered, silenced, anti-magicked AND costs a bonus action in comparison to an ability that does none? They have to make it stronger. And that means making them the same damage as Divine Smite AND give a condition.

Instead, they jut brought Divine Smite into parity with the other smites. If they were just fine being able to be counter-spelled, silenced, anti-magicked and costing a bonus action... then Divine Smite should be to.

 

[Sir Brennen]

if something was for free, and now it competes for action slot, then it is prevented from working.

Competing != Preventing.

There are cases where an abundance of Bonus Action options can problematic, or where a “primary” bonus action decreases the opportunity to use others.

For example, dual-wielding weapons takes a bonus action to get an extra attack in, and rogues are going to want to do this as often as possible to increase their chances of landing a Sneak Attack. However, it limits their use of Cunning Action, which also requires a bonus action. This led to the Nick weapon mastery, which resolves the dilemma in this playtest.

However, there wasn’t anything preventing a 2014 rogue from making a regular attack and then using their Cunning Action. It was just not always optimal.

The paladin now has Lay on Hands and Divine Smite as bonus action options, but they won’t come into conflict nearly as often. When they do, it’s more of an interesting choice than a continual problem, unlike the rogue example above. Divine Smite is a limited resource, unlike Sneak Attack, which also makes it less of a problem.

 

[Horwath]

The number one issue is being able to smite on every attack, that just creates too much nova power.

Some would argue the smite on a crit is too good (its still debatable whether with this version you actually can crit with the smite or not).

using smite on non-crit is usually a waste of spell slot.

also using every spell slot above 2nd is a waste of a spell slot

 

[mellored]

unless it was some unholy 20th level combo of assassinate, gloomstalker, action surge, battlemaster combo.

Just a basic Polearm master paladin can smite 3 a turn times easily. Possibly off turn as well.

And if you want to multiclass, try champion and barbarian for crit fishing (and action surge), then sorcerer for more spell slots.

 

[Horwath]

Just a basic Polearm master paladin can smite 3 a turn times easily. Possibly off turn as well.

And if you want to multiclass, try champion and barbarian for crit fishing (and action surge), then sorcerer for more spell slots.

again, problem is multiclass, not smite.

 

[mellored]

again, problem is multiclass, not smite.

Polearm master is not multiclassing.
Neither is haste.

 

[Horwath]

Polearm master is not multiclassing.

that is not the problem.
using 3rd level spell slots or higher is a waste on smites,

so, your only hope is a crit train to make smite "overpowered"

 

[mellored]

that is not the problem.
using 3rd level spell slots or higher is a waste on smites,

If the enemy dies, it's worth the slots.

It's not even a 5 minute work day.
It's a 1-2 turn work day.

An ally cast haste on you. You dump 4-5 smites, and then go have a rest.

 

[Clint_L]

The move of making Divine Smite a spell, with the cost of a Bonus Action, is a well designed nerf to the paladin. The Paladin is pretty consistently considered one of, if not the strongest class, with smite as its primary reason. Reducing the paladin's ability to go nova in this way is an overall positive for the game.

I agree. This is a nerf but a very modest one, and it is balanced against making the other smite spells more appealing, so it kind of comes out as a wash. The overall play style of the paladin won't be strongly affected, and I think that is very important.

 

[Maxperson]

That is wrathful smite. If you think that is what they changed Divine Smite to, I can see the confusion. This is the text for Divine Smite

"As you hit the target, your strike glows with divine power. The target takes an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is a Fiend or an Undead.

At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st."

As you can see, no saving throw.

It's still a spell and can be countered, which is a common ability. Now you too can have a signature class ability negated by half the casters out there!!!