D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[Yaarel]

I would retool Friends so it enhances you with an instinct of how to be persuasive, rather than messing with the mind of the target you're persuading.

Now there's no reason for the person you're persuading to be upset. It's more like you're taking a self-help course, rather than, I dunno, roofie-ing someone.

I think that is the better way to characterize the Friends cantrip. It grants the caster insight into what does and doesnt appeal to the target, thus the caster can make the effort to behave accordingly.

 

[Mistwell]

I would retool Friends so it enhances you

Is it a blue pill?

 

[Weiley31]

Considering the component is Makeup. I don't see it as being drugged, any more than some high heels and a push up bra would drug someone.

Just a sweet transvestite... now I know what Frankenfurter was doing!

 

[Pauln6]

Is it a blue pill?

The Venus Drug from Mudd's Women?

 

[Mistwell]

The Venus Drug from Mudd's Women?

That was a red pill.

 

[Charlaquin]

Is it a blue pill?

Mine are lavender

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Because I find the spell components themselves problematic, I would avoid them for any kind of mechanic relating to balance.

The spell description itself needs to clarify whether being Charmed is noticeable.

After all, Charmed is not an especially powerful condition. The charmer merely appears likable. It wouldnt even be something that the target would necessarily begrudge, since normal people do all kinds of things to be more likable.

The spell description needs to explain the Rules-As-Intended.

Look up the rules for Components in the PH. They are clear. There is no "subtle" spellcasting.

Here are the opening/relevant sentences for the description of each type of component:

1. Verbal - Most spells require the "chanting" of mystic words. (Chanting isn't subtle.)
2. Somatic - Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. (Forceful gesticulation isn't subtle.)
3. Material - Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell’s material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components. (Having to manipulate the component pouch or implement isn't subtle.)

In my games, there is no such thing as a "subtle" spell unless a special ability allows for it, like Metamagic. No slight of hand, no stealth, nothing.

1. All Verbal components are clearly spoken and audible.
2. All Somatic components are clear hand gestures.
3. All Material Components/Implements are at hand and manipulated.
4. Sense-obscuring factors, or the range from which the spell is cast if it is far away enough, may be relevant, as they could affect sight and hearing of the spellcasting.

Strict component requirements is one of the most important balancing factors of spellcasting in my games. Enemies have to follow this too. Don't want to be accused of charming someone? Don't cast a charm spell on them.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Look up the rules for Components in the PH. They are clear. There is no "subtle" spellcasting.

Here are the opening/relevant sentences for the description of each type of component:

1. Verbal - Most spells require the "chanting" of mystic words. (Chanting isn't subtle.)
2. Somatic - Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. (Forceful gesticulation isn't subtle.)
3. Material - Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell’s material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components. (Having to manipulate the component pouch or implement isn't subtle.)

In my games, there is no such thing as a "subtle" spell unless a special ability allows for it, like Metamagic. No slight of hand, no stealth, nothing.

1. All Verbal components are clearly spoken and audible.
2. All Somatic components are clear hand gestures.
3. All Material Components/Implements are at hand and manipulated.
4. Sense-obscuring factors, or the range from which the spell is cast if it is far away enough, may be relevant, as they could affect sight and hearing of the spellcasting.

Strict component requirements is one of the most important balancing factors of spellcasting in my games. Enemies have to follow this too. Don't want to be accused of charming someone? Don't cast a charm spell on them.

Just holding a staff in your hand counts as having your component so anyone walking with a staff could be casing a spell on you. A person who powders their nose might be casting charm so it is not necessarily obvious. Also most commoners don't know what a charm spell would look like if it is being cast.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Just holding a staff in your hand counts as having your component so anyone walking with a staff could be casing a spell on you. A person who powders their nose might be casting charm so it is not necessarily obvious. Also most commoners don't know what a charm spell would look like if it is being cast.

In my game, a somatic component isn't a personalized thing. It is a specific series of hand gestures for each spell. If the somatic component for Charm Person was "powdering one's nose," it is that way for everyone, and it wouldn't be subtle. It would look practiced and precise, and while a commoner might not understand what it means, it might seem weird and out of place to them, and there may be magic sparkles or mystical effects.

It would be obvious spellcasting.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I think that is the better way to characterize the Friends cantrip. It grants the caster insight into what does and doesnt appeal to the target, thus the caster can make the effort to behave accordingly.

That would be divination though (which I'd be fine with).

Lets face it. Mind control isn't the domain of good people. Friends usurps someone's will to make them like you, much like getting someone drunk to impair their decision making. It SHOULD tick people off, and enchantment in general really should be illegal in places that value honesty and freedom.

I'd fix it by extending the duration, with additional scaling at upper levels, and allowing a saving throw after it ends to realize the magical influence.