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Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9069422" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>What about weapon mastery being so useless on this monk is meant to be good?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>False. Monks are actually the absolute WORST at the control aspect of unarmed strikes. Nothing in the Monk class changes the DC calculation, meaning all of their grapples and shoves are done via strength, one of the monk's dump stats. It is actually likely that if you use the Unarmed Fighting Style on a fighter, paladin or barbarian, monks are now the worst unarmed fighters. </p><p></p><p>The damage increase is nice, but if you scroll back in the thread a bit you'll see the charts I stole from Treantmonk, and they show us that even with that damage increase, a level 13 monk is doing less damage than basically everyone.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, from level 1 to 4 it is top-tier damage. Eventually you are trading a d8+mod or d10+mod for a 1d6+mof followed by 1d4 no modifier. </p><p></p><p>And, frankly, no one else is trading damage for these masteries. So why should the monk, who does the lowest damage of all the martial classes, be forced to ALSO trade damage for the same weapon masteries everyone else has?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree, this was a good change.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It isn't a buff at all. They've traded die+mod for two dice. That's basically the exact same. And since it is a dex save for nothing, it can no longer crit or benefit from other attack modifiers. If anything, it is a minor nerf.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Monks spent too much ki trying to make this good ability work, so now we've nerfed it so they can only try once, now they won't waste ki trying to make it work" </p><p></p><p>That isn't a good thing. It is a heavy nerf that turns this into an ability most people just won't bother using.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do agree there were better solutions to this.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Way of the Hand is nerfed nearly into the ground, I don't see how you could think it was improved, unless you have blinders on and only looked at the level 11 ability. </p><p></p><p>And, Four Elements "niche" was "being a terrible choice" it is literally one of the single most homebrewed options in the game. Yes, this version is simpler, but it is at the very least EFFECTIVE. No more trap options, no more spending all your ki on a single meager spell. Do I wish it had some more utility? Sure, but this is at least a subclass that won't hurt to see someone want to play anymore. </p><p></p><p>I do agree losing the spells for Shadow Monk was bad. I think just give them the other spells back and we are good.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Glaives and polearms I agree with. Longsword is eh, I'm fine just leaving that to the Kensei. </p><p></p><p>No one should ever be fooled into thinking Nunchuks are a viable weapon, even for fantasy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If they paired it with a way for monks to actually deal decent damage, I'd agree. As it stands, I question what monks you are playing if you don't think their only good offensive option brings anything of value.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9069422, member: 6801228"] What about weapon mastery being so useless on this monk is meant to be good? False. Monks are actually the absolute WORST at the control aspect of unarmed strikes. Nothing in the Monk class changes the DC calculation, meaning all of their grapples and shoves are done via strength, one of the monk's dump stats. It is actually likely that if you use the Unarmed Fighting Style on a fighter, paladin or barbarian, monks are now the worst unarmed fighters. The damage increase is nice, but if you scroll back in the thread a bit you'll see the charts I stole from Treantmonk, and they show us that even with that damage increase, a level 13 monk is doing less damage than basically everyone. Sure, from level 1 to 4 it is top-tier damage. Eventually you are trading a d8+mod or d10+mod for a 1d6+mof followed by 1d4 no modifier. And, frankly, no one else is trading damage for these masteries. So why should the monk, who does the lowest damage of all the martial classes, be forced to ALSO trade damage for the same weapon masteries everyone else has? I agree, this was a good change. It isn't a buff at all. They've traded die+mod for two dice. That's basically the exact same. And since it is a dex save for nothing, it can no longer crit or benefit from other attack modifiers. If anything, it is a minor nerf. "Monks spent too much ki trying to make this good ability work, so now we've nerfed it so they can only try once, now they won't waste ki trying to make it work" That isn't a good thing. It is a heavy nerf that turns this into an ability most people just won't bother using. I do agree there were better solutions to this. Way of the Hand is nerfed nearly into the ground, I don't see how you could think it was improved, unless you have blinders on and only looked at the level 11 ability. And, Four Elements "niche" was "being a terrible choice" it is literally one of the single most homebrewed options in the game. Yes, this version is simpler, but it is at the very least EFFECTIVE. No more trap options, no more spending all your ki on a single meager spell. Do I wish it had some more utility? Sure, but this is at least a subclass that won't hurt to see someone want to play anymore. I do agree losing the spells for Shadow Monk was bad. I think just give them the other spells back and we are good. Agreed. Glaives and polearms I agree with. Longsword is eh, I'm fine just leaving that to the Kensei. No one should ever be fooled into thinking Nunchuks are a viable weapon, even for fantasy. If they paired it with a way for monks to actually deal decent damage, I'd agree. As it stands, I question what monks you are playing if you don't think their only good offensive option brings anything of value. [/QUOTE]
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Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?
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