D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?

Clint_L

Hero
Thoughts on the updated monk?

My initial feelings are: minor improvement to the base class, where more is needed. In particular, why is WotC so averse to letting monks be monks right from level 1? Let them use discipline points (calling them di points from now on) right from level 1, and let them add their wisdom modifier to the number of di points available. More thoughts to follow.
 
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OB1

Jedi Master
The Step of the Wind buff is fantastic, giving both Dash and Disengage for 1 Ki. The damage die is a needed buff. Like that they've limited Stunning Strike to one attempt per turn, no more monks burning thru all 3 legendary resistances on the first turn of combat. Like the Warrior of Shadow changes, haven't had a chance to look deeply at Element and Hand.
 

darjr

I crit!
They broke out the Monk bit of the longer video.


we've got some pretty significant
changes to the monk let's deal with this
a lot of people have been asking this
whole time where's the monk where's the
monk so let's talk about it so the monk
has been in our internal play testing
for quite a while now and one of our
main goals with the Monk Is to get its
output right because we have been
concerned for a number of years that the
monks damage output has not been where
it should be relative to other classes
and so to me one of the main things
about the monk is that your Martial Arts
die progression has all moved up one die
and so rather than starting at a D4 you
now start at a D6 and it goes all the
way up to a D12 so in a way we could
just say that and that's enough for for
exciting changes for this class because
uh monks now are really going to be able
to punch at the weight that they should
have been all along but of course we've
done more uh we we have uh brand new
features in this class the monk now gets
weapon Mastery so in addition to their
enhanced unarmed combat bunks also now
get to play around with the fun options
in weapon Mastery and get to then
explore some amazing tactical combos
when you start thinking about combining
certain weapon Mastery properties with
then also certain features in monk
subclasses as well as in the base class
we also have a a new feature in the monk
called deflect energy this is an often
an often requested thing in the class so
in the in the past of course uh monks
could deflect
like arrows you know catch them throw
them back that kind of thing well at
high level now the monk can go even
further and like that fire bolt that
comes in that monk can bat that fireball
away uh and super fun super cinematic
yeah and really leans into uh
the monk having this sort of fine
control not only of themselves uh but of
the battlefield around them right and
that that fine control is a theme here
uh it's why you know we now call their
main uh resource discipline points
because uh monks are all about this
self-discipline that allows them to pull
off these sometimes Supernatural effects
uh and the first time I get to grab a
magic Missile out of the air or Eldritch
blast and
I'm not just going to deflect it I'm
gonna like theme it that I just like
throw it back like I hold on to him for
a second look at it and then toss it
back at someone I'm gonna laugh so I I
hate to break it to you no I was
wondering about magic Missile is it's
not gonna work with magic oh come on met
like one of them nope
because there are multiple multiple are
hitting here once no so no it's because
magic Missile is that special thing in
the game well always hits for the monk
to deflect something it has to be an
attack roll that hits you and magic
Missile part of its core identity is
that it bypasses such things I mean
that's why magic Missile is so iconic uh
but I like the idea of grabbing Eldritch
blast and throwing a bat back at a
warlock that's hilarious to me there's
other stuff for the month uh yes uh in
addition to a lot of fine-tuning in the
core class
uh we have
completely redesigned the subclass that
was formally known as The Way of the
four elements so that subclass was the
lowest rated subclass in the 2014
Players handbook and looking at the
feedback that we've received over the
years on it and sort of faced with do we
simply refine it or completely go back
to the drawing board we completely went
back to the drawing board and so what
you see here is a subclass that is able
to use their discipline points in a way
that I think is going to be super
satisfying as they create explosions of
elemental power on the battlefield are
able to power up their unarmed strikes
with elemental energy extend their reach
Yep they're able to extend their reach
many of the capabilities that in 2014
were embedded in some of the spell
options what we've done instead is taken
those move them into the subclass itself
and allowed you to get a lot of the same
feel but without looping through spells
and also without spending such a
punishing number of points because
because the 2014 that spell casting one
of the reasons why it was unpopular is
the options are simply too expensive and
so the the monk was often running out of
their points
super fast and then felt like they were
then reduced to just punching or hitting
somebody with a weapon while other monks
were able to keep going longer with some
of their subclass distinctive
capabilities so now
the way of the four elements now called
Warrior of the elements is now able to
essentially
stand side by side with other monk
classes subclasses rather and be just as
potent as they are we also have we have
a variety of subclasses in here we've
got Warrior of the Shadow yes we have a
warrior of Shadow and also Warrior of
the hand and then the fourth subclass is
Warrior of mercy and for that you just
go to Tasha's and use the way of Mercy
that is there now of course in the 2024
book any subclass that we're currently
just pointing you to a book for will
appear in the player's handbook so
Warrior of Shadow has been more refined
like you can move the darkness around
the battlefield yeah tactical that's
that is a big a big change in Warrior of
Shadow and that is uh you were able to
create Darkness as you could in 2014 but
now you can move that darkness and you
can see in it yes so that combination of
things is fantastic we've also lessened
the subclasses Reliance on spells and it
gets more of the capabilities that
before came through spells just directly
through its features that is uh it's
like a very simple change that changes
the battlefield quite significantly yes
yeah
foreign
English (auto-generated)
 


Clint_L

Hero
Okay, more detailed thoughts on the base class:

Level 1: Martial arts, unarmored defence, weapon mastery. Martial arts die goes up by one, apparently to keep up with weapon mastery. This does not let it keep up with weapon mastery. Also give the monk's unarmed attack a weapon mastery feature, because otherwise it becomes a significant disadvantage compared to other melee attacks (plus Warrior of Open Hand is severely disadvantaged; more on that later). Unarmoured defence and martial arts are unchanged.

Okay, just let monks use discipline points from level 1, and let them add their wisdom modifier to their di points pool. This is the defining feature of monks and making them wait is akin to making full casters wait until level 2 to cast spells, and then only giving them two spells. Just give monks di points and step of the wind at level 1.

Level 2: Martial discipline (see above), unarmored movement. See above. Adding disengage to step of the wind is great and actually makes it worth spending a di on.

Level 3: Deflect Missiles improvement. A tiny bit better, depending on what you just deflected? Still situational but fun when you can use it. The counterattack feature might actually be worthwhile more frequently.

Level 5: Stunning Strike reduced to one attempt per turn. I think most of us agree with this, but why not give a SECOND option for spending di to go with it, so there is more choice? Most folks spammed Stunning Strike because they had nothing better to do.

Level 6: Empowered Strikes letting unarmored attacks do force damage. So...hmmm. This is a probably a wash, since very few creatures resist magical b/p/s attacks (swarms and demi-liches?), but a similarly few things resist force damage. Definitely makes the monk more effective against demi-liches!

Level 7: Heightened metabolism - so after 7 levels monks go from famine to feast as far as di points go. Just give them more di points to start with and give them something fun here, instead. Like stillness of mind, but make it a bonus action..oh wait, that's now wrapped up with purity of body at level 10 and called "self-restoration."

Level 10: Self-restoration. So this is kind of lame. Disease is no longer a thing, okay, but instead of being immune to poison damage you now can use a bonus action to remove the poisoned condition - that's a huge nerf against some fairly common opponents. On the other hand, being able to remove charm or frightened as a bonus action rather than an action is an improvement, but you have to wait until level 10 to get it. Overall this is at best a wash, but it feels like a nerf. It'll sure feel like a nerf when you are fighting anything that does poison damage!

Level 13: Deflect Energy instead of Tongue of the Sun and Moon. Why not both? Deflect Energy is a modest upgrade, since it will only affect targeted spells, and it's not like Tongue of Sun and Moon was that great in most campaigns.

Level 15: Perfect Discipline: again an ability that seeks to address the fundamental flaw with monks, resource scarcity, but does it at a level where that is much less of an issue. Just fix the fundamental problem at level 1, FFS!

Level 18: Superior Defence: So it costs 1 di less than Empty Body, but you no longer get to be invisible, which feels like a nerf. And you lose the ability to cast astral projection, which was very situational but cool.

Level 20: Defy Death: similar to Mastery of Death, which Way of the Long Death monks get at level 11, except it costs 4 points (or more) instead of 1. This is a terrible capstone (and no capstone at all for Way of the Long Death monks; hello backwards compatibility).

So, overall, I'm super disappointed. The big problem with monks, particularly at low levels, is resource scarcity plus lack of options, and this is barely addressed. Your unarmed damage gets buffed by +1, but those attacks lose out on mastery. Other than that...a few tweaks and a terrible capstone to replace the previous terrible capstone. But step of the wind is improved so that it is no longer "cunning action but much worse."
 
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Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
Initial thoughts on the monk:
  • Ki points now discipline points. It's good to remove the cultural specificity.
  • Two weapon masteries at level 1.
  • Dextrous attacks: Using dexterity to attack with a spear, mace, or hammer, is actually quite fun.
  • Level 7 s the point that rationing discipline points is no longer a concern. That tracks with the power jumps paladins get with their aura and rogues with their evasion.
  • the wording of acrobatic movement is perfect.
  • open hand technique lets you target any of three physical stat saves. That seems smart.
  • Elementalism cantrip gives some fun flavour, but is not substantial.
  • I've never been enchanted with the monk, but I can see giving this a try.
 

I had honestly thought they were going to get the bump to d10 hit die, I find they're still MAD enough that AC is a challenge.

Still digesting this Monk though
I mean, yeah. They did do some nice tinkering around the edges, but the fundamental problems with the class (extra MAD, flimsy melee, expendable resources too few until upper tiers, being able to fight without weapons and armor just isn't as powerful as devs seem to think) haven't really been addressed.
 

The Monk still has problems with MAD, they should have at least tried giving the Monk more Feats like Fighters and Rogue do.

And I noticed that Monks have to use STR for the save DCs on the Shove or Grapple options for Unarmed Strike, in Martial Arts the use DEX only applies to attack rolls.

I like that throwing a bullet right back at someone who shot at you is now potentially more damaging.

Running out of Ki/Discipline/Breath Points too fast is still an issue. Sure some classes make some uses free.

Heightened Metabolism is good for getting a bunch of those points back, it might relieve some of those issues.

I feel Perfect Discipline comes too late, and I think that Monks should have an action or maybe something like when they make a critical hit to get 1 point back.

The one thing about the Monk that's improved the most is that (Warrior of the) Elements is no longer underpowered.
 

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