D&D (2024) ANOTHER Possible Monk "Fix"

[VenerableBede]

After reading ChameleonX's proposed monk fix, I decided to try my hand at my own

Here are my goals for this rework:

1. Lean into the fact that I think Monk's should be hard-hitting skirmishers and not tanks.
2. Make Monk fun and fully functional when focusing solely on Wisdom and Dexterity, rather than needing Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and Wisdom to be good or better to fully accomplish everything the class is trying to do.
3. Make Discipline Points focused on having what you need each encounter, rather than just having a lump sum for the day.
4. Making Stunning Fist unnecessary.
5. Integrating Weapon Masteries with the unique aspects of Monk a little better.
6. Remove Short Rest mechanics because Short Rests, as they currently work within the rules, suck.

Let me know your thoughts once you've read through it!

Monk

Hit Points
Unchanged.

Proficiencies
Strength and your choice of Dexterity or Wisdom.
Everything else unchanged.

Spoiler: Aside

I actually think Monks should have Dexterity and Wisdom as their saves, but that’s never going to happen, and not just because it breaks convention by providing two good saves at level 1.

Everything else unchanged.

Armor Training
Unchanged.

Starting Equipment
Unchanged

1st Level: Martial Arts
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only Simple Weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Monk Weapons. For you, Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons that do not have the two-handed property count as “monk weapons.” You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Monk Weapons.
Bonus Unarmed Strike. When you use the Attack action with a Monk Weapon, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Monk Weapons. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Precise Technique. When you make an Unarmed Strike and choose to Grapple or Shove rather than deal damage, you may use your Dexterity or Wisdom modifier to calculate the DC to escape the grapple or resist the shove.

1st Level: Unarmored Defense
Unchanged.

1st Level: Weapon Mastery
Your martial training grants you access to Mastery properties with weapons and your Unarmed Strikes. You learn two Masteries, which may be two weapons, two Mastery properties applied to your Unarmed Strikes, or one of each
Weapon Mastery. You may use this feature to access the Mastery properties of Simple weapons, such as Daggers and Spears.
Unarmed Mastery. In place of a weapon you may apply a Mastery property to your Unarmed Strikes. This Mastery property must be one that can be applied to one-handed, melee Simple Weapons with the Light weapon property. You may only apply a Mastery property to Unarmed Strikes when your intent is to deal damage, not Grapple or Shove. You may not apply more than one Mastery property to any single Unarmed Strike.

Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of Simple Weapons you chose (or Mastery properties applied to your Unarmed Strikes). For example, you could switch to using the Mastery property of Slings and apply the Sap Mastery to your Unarmed Strikes.

2nd Level: Martial Discipline
Your self-discipline and martial training allow you to harness a well of extraordinary energy
within yourself. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of Discipline Points. Your Monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Discipline Points column of the Monk table.

Spoiler: Aside

For this version of the Monk the chart would cap out at roughly 8 Discipline Points at level 8, but the points would otherwise gained at the same pace. This will make sense when you see how recovery for these points work at this level and at level 7.
My goal behind this change is for Monks to reliably have the exact amount of Discipline Points they need every encounter, no more or less. This might irk people who like being given all of their resources at the beginning of the day and then having to carefully manage them as time goes on, but not every class has to work that way, and I think it makes less sense for Martials to work that way than Casters anyway.

You can spend these points to fuel various Martial Discipline features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more Martial Discipline features as you gain levels in this class.
When you spend a Discipline Point, it is unavailable until you meditate for five uninterrupted minutes, at the end of which you regain all your expended points. You may meditate in this way twice, then must finish a Long Rest before you can do so again. You also regain all Discipline Points when you finish a Long Rest.
Some of your Martial Discipline features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC equals 8 plus your Proficiency Bonus plus your Wisdom modifier.
Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to make two attacks as a Bonus Action. These attacks must be made with Monk Weapons.
Patient Defense. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take the Dodge action as a Bonus Action.
Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action. In addition, your jump distance is doubled for the turn and is determined by your Dexterity rather than your Strength.

2nd Level: Striker
When you use the Attack action with Monk Weapons, you do not provoke opportunity attacks from creatures that you target; this lasts until the end of your turn, whether you hit or not.
In addition, your speed increases by 10 feet while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a Shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain Monk levels, as shown in the Monk table.

Spoiler: Aside

In my opinion, this is not redundant with Step of the Wind, but it does overlap a little. Step of the Wind gives you lots of speed and protection from Opportunity Attacks even against enemies you didn't attack, while this feature allows you to Flurry of Blows and strike hard on one creature before retreating a little bit, or get a little damage on several creature before retreating.

3rd Level: Deflection and Redirection
You gain two new Martial Disciplines.
Deflect Missiles. When you are the target of a ranged attack, as a Reaction you may spend 1 Discipline Point to attempt to deflect it. When you do so, make an attack roll as if you were making an Unarmed Strike. If your attack roll exceeds the attack roll against you, you take no damage from the attack.
When you use this Martial Discipline, you may protect yourself from a number of ranged attacks equal to your Wisdom modifier until the beginning of your next turn. If you are attacked by a greater number of ranged attacks, you may spend additional Discipline Points to continue protecting yourself without needing to spend an additional Reaction.
You may not use this Martial Discipline to protect yourself from missiles that are too large for you to make an attack with yourself. (For example, a Halfling Monk is not large enough to make an attack with a boulder thrown by a giant and would not be able to use this feature against that attack.)
Redirect Missiles. After using Deflect Missiles, you may choose to redirect the ranged attack against a creature within 60 feet of yourself that isn’t behind Total Cover. If the attack roll you made with Deflect Missiles would hit that creature, it takes damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die plus your Dexterity modifier. The damage is the same type dealt by the original ranged attack.
You may not use this Martial Discipline to redirect ranged attacks from spells.

Spoiler: Aside

I am aware this is a huge buff for the original feature, Deflect Missiles, but I think the feature needed to be much better to be worthwhile. I also prefer features that make the players more active than the DM, and this version of the feature has the player rolling more rather than the DM, while also decreasing the overall number of die rolls and therefore decreasing some of the time this feature eats up.

4th Level: Ability Score Improvement
Unchanged.

4th Level: Slow Fall
Unchanged.

5th Level: Extra Attack
Unchanged.

5th Level: Punishing Strikes
When you attack with a Monk Weapon, you score a critical hit on a roll of 19–20.
In addition, when you attempt to Shove a creature, or when a creature attempts to escape your grapple, you may spend 1 Discipline Point to impose disadvantage on the creature’s save.

Spoiler: Aside

I killed Stunning Strike. I don’t think it’s necessary in this version of the Monk. I think applying Weapon Masteries to Unarmed Strikes, calculating Grapple and Shove DCs off of abilities the Monk actually wants, and using Discipline Points to make it harder for creatures to succeed on their saves more than covers the gap, while also making the Monk less of a one-trick pony.

6th Level: Empowered Strikes
Whenever you make an attack with a Monk Weapon, you can deal your choice of Force damage or the attack’s normal damage type.
In addition, you may choose to make attack and damage rolls using Dexterity or Wisdom with Monk Weapons.
Finally, you may Grapple or Shove creatures up to two size categories larger than you

6th Level: Subclass Feature
Unchanged.

7th Level: Evasion
Unchanged.

7th Level: Heightened Metabolism
You may spend a Hit Die to meditate to regain Discipline Points. You still may meditate twice before finishing a Long Rest at no cost.

Spoiler: Aside

In my opinion, this is better than getting a whole bunch of Discipline Points, for reasons explained earlier. (Not that any Monk ever actually felt like they had a whole bunch...) The Monk, at this point, really should have all the Discipline Points he needs each encounter, except for on really, really long adventuring days—or weeks.

8th Level: Ability Score Improvement
Unchanged.

9th Level: Acrobatic Movement
Unchanged.

10th Level: Self-Restoration
Through sheer force of will, you can spend a Bonus Action or 1 Discipline Point to remove one of the following conditions from yourself on your turn: Charmed, Frightened, or Poisoned. You may do this no more than once per turn.
In addition, forgoing food and drink doesn’t give you levels of Exhaustion.

11th Level: Unending Flurry
The Flurry of Blows discipline no longer costs Discipline Points for you to use.

11th Level: Subclass Feature
Unchanged.

12th Level: Ability Score Improvement
Unchanged.

13th Level: Empowered Deflection and Redirection
You may use the Redirect Missiles discipline to redirect ranged attacks from spells.
In addition, you may use Deflect Missiles to protect yourself from any ranged attack.

14th Level: Disciplined Survivor
Unchanged.

15th Level: Perfect Discipline
Whenever you reduce a creature to 0 Hit Points you regain 2 Discipline Points. The creature must be at least CR 1/8 to gain this benefit.

16th Level: Ability Score Improvement
Unchanged.

17th Level: Extra Attack
You may attack thrice, instead of once or twice, when you take the Attack action on your turn.

17th Level: Subclass Feature
Unchanged.

18th Level: Superior Defense
Unchanged.

19th Level: Ability Score Improvement
Unchanged.

12th Level: Defy Death
As long as you have Discipline Points, you cannot be rendered Incapacitated or Unconscious against your will.
If you are reduced to 0 Hit Points, you may continue to act as normal, although you still make Death Saving Throws. You have Advantage on these saving throws.


Monk Subclasses
The above changes would probably necessitate some changes in the subclasses, but I didn’t go into them in depth. Here’s the result of me skimming and providing quickfire ideas.

Way of Shadow
Maybe Cloak of Shadows should cost 4 Discipline Points, since this version of the Monk is expected to be at max Discipline Points at the beginning of almost any new encounter. Alternatively, maybe it should just have limited per-day uses in this version.

Warrior of the Elements
For similar reasons to the above, consider having Environmental Blast cost 1 more point, but it might not be a big deal.

Warrior of the Hand
Open Hand Technique’s Topple is redundant in this version of the Monk.
Fleet Step loses some of its oomph with base class changes allowing you to not provoke opportunity attacks from creatures you attack, so it might need a boost—but it is still useful in large crowds, or when you don’t want to spread your flurry of attacks across multiple creatures.

Way of the Kensei
“What? This isn’t in the Playtest!”
Yeah, I know… Be really cool if it ended up in the One DnD rulebook, though. Here’s how I’d do it!

3rd Level: Path of the Kensei
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your special martial arts training leads you to master the use of weapons outside the normal scope. This path also includes instruction in the deft strokes of calligraphy or painting. You gain the following benefits:
Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don't already have it, and you may access the Mastery properties for these weapons. Weapons of the chosen types are Monk Weapons for you, but you may not use them with Flurry of Blows. Many of this tradition's features work only with your kensei weapons. When you reach 6th, 11th, and 17th level in this class, you can choose another type of weapon – either melee or ranged – to be a kensei weapon for you, following the criteria above.
Agile Parry. If you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated.
Kensei's Shot. You can use a bonus action on your turn to make your ranged attacks with a kensei weapon more deadly. When you do so, any target you hit with a ranged attack using a kensei weapon takes an extra 1d4 damage of the weapon’s type. This damage increases to 1d6 at 11th level. You retain this benefit until the end of the current turn.
Way of the Brush. You gain proficiency with your choice of calligrapher's supplies or painter's supplies.

6th Level: Heavy Hitter
When you hit a target with a kensei weapon, you can spend 1 ki point to cause the weapon to deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die. You can use this feature only once on each of your turns.
In addition, whenever you change your Weapon Masteries you may choose to apply a Mastery property to your Unarmed Strikes that has the Heavy weapon property as a prerequisite.

11th Level: Sharpen the Blade
Unchanged.

17th Level: Unerring Accuracy
Unchanged.

 

[mellored]

If you want to get rid of Con...

Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your wisdom modifier
Hit Points per Level after 1st: 1d8 (or 5) + your wisdom modifier

 

[Incenjucar]

Could always just let a monk choose to not be hit by a physical attack once in awhile.

 

[VenerableBede]

If you want to get rid of Con...

Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your wisdom modifier
Hit Points per Level after 1st: 1d8 (or 5) + your wisdom modifier

I think the idea is worth experimentation, but not necessary if the goal of the Monk is to not be hit in the first place.

 

[mellored]

I think the idea is worth experimentation, but not necessary if the goal of the Monk is to not be hit in the first place.

It's your goal 2.

"focusing solely on Wisdom and Dexterity."

So drop Con.

 

[VenerableBede]

We have a fundamental misunderstanding here. Rogues solely need Dexterity, really; Wizards Intelligence; Clerics and Druids Wisdom. Those classes only need to focus on one stat to do whatever the class needs to do to be effective, but that doesn’t obviate Constitution being used to increase HP.

The if the wording isn’t clear enough, read it as “focusing solely on Wisdom and Dexterity to be effective/accomplish what the class is trying to do.” This particular Monk design intentionally strays away from HP being a top priority because your goal is to not get hit at all, but the balance for that needs to be middle-low HP.

 

[WanderingMystic]

See for me I would rather your unarmored defense to be dex + prof bonus. This way I don't need to focus on wisdom just dex unless I want to.

 

[mellored]

We have a fundamental misunderstanding here. Rogues solely need Dexterity, really; Wizards Intelligence; Clerics and Druids Wisdom. Those classes only need to focus on one stat to do whatever the class needs to do to be effective, but that doesn’t obviate Constitution being used to increase HP.

The if the wording isn’t clear enough, read it as “focusing solely on Wisdom and Dexterity to be effective/accomplish what the class is trying to do.” This particular Monk design intentionally strays away from HP being a top priority because your goal is to not get hit at all, but the balance for that needs to be middle-low HP.

Wizards are Int and Con secondary
Monks can be Dex and Wis secondary.

Could reduce their hit dice to a d6 if your feelings it's too much.

Alternatively.
Your AC is 10 + (your speed / 5)

 

[Chaosmancer]

Hmm, there are some good ideas here.

1st Level: Martial Arts
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only Simple Weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Monk Weapons. For you, Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons that do not have the two-handed property count as “monk weapons.” You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Monk Weapons.
Bonus Unarmed Strike. When you use the Attack action with a Monk Weapon, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Monk Weapons. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Precise Technique. When you make an Unarmed Strike and choose to Grapple or Shove rather than deal damage, you may use your Dexterity or Wisdom modifier to calculate the DC to escape the grapple or resist the shove.

Interesting. I rolled your precise technique ability into the monk weapons. I also put your Striker ability here. I want monks to be monks from level 1. And I felt like the ability to weave in and out of combat was a good starting identity to build off of. Do you think it is too powerful at level 1? I also gave a +5ft movement, so there is a bit of an initial scaling.

1st Level: Weapon Mastery
Your martial training grants you access to Mastery properties with weapons and your Unarmed Strikes. You learn two Masteries, which may be two weapons, two Mastery properties applied to your Unarmed Strikes, or one of each
Weapon Mastery. You may use this feature to access the Mastery properties of Simple weapons, such as Daggers and Spears.
Unarmed Mastery. In place of a weapon you may apply a Mastery property to your Unarmed Strikes. This Mastery property must be one that can be applied to one-handed, melee Simple Weapons with the Light weapon property. You may only apply a Mastery property to Unarmed Strikes when your intent is to deal damage, not Grapple or Shove. You may not apply more than one Mastery property to any single Unarmed Strike.

Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of Simple Weapons you chose (or Mastery properties applied to your Unarmed Strikes). For example, you could switch to using the Mastery property of Slings and apply the Sap Mastery to your Unarmed Strikes.

Honestly, I've started deleting Weapon Masteries. I wonder if the monk even needs them if they can use shove, grapple, and prone with unarmed strikes seamlessly? Especially when I consider my idea for the Open Hand.

2nd Level: Martial Discipline
Your self-discipline and martial training allow you to harness a well of extraordinary energy
within yourself. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of Discipline Points. Your Monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Discipline Points column of the Monk table.

Spoiler: Aside

For this version of the Monk the chart would cap out at roughly 8 Discipline Points at level 8, but the points would otherwise gained at the same pace. This will make sense when you see how recovery for these points work at this level and at level 7.
My goal behind this change is for Monks to reliably have the exact amount of Discipline Points they need every encounter, no more or less. This might irk people who like being given all of their resources at the beginning of the day and then having to carefully manage them as time goes on, but not every class has to work that way, and I think it makes less sense for Martials to work that way than Casters anyway.

You can spend these points to fuel various Martial Discipline features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more Martial Discipline features as you gain levels in this class.
When you spend a Discipline Point, it is unavailable until you meditate for five uninterrupted minutes, at the end of which you regain all your expended points. You may meditate in this way twice, then must finish a Long Rest before you can do so again. You also regain all Discipline Points when you finish a Long Rest.

I'm not sure about this. I have thoughts on regenerating Ki, and making this twice per long rest doesn't effectively change the intent of the design, just makes short rests shorter. So I don't know if maxing at 8 Ki works then, because the balance would still assume the same number of ki needed.

Some of your Martial Discipline features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC equals 8 plus your Proficiency Bonus plus your Wisdom modifier.
Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to make two attacks as a Bonus Action. These attacks must be made with Monk Weapons.
Patient Defense. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take the Dodge action as a Bonus Action.
Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action. In addition, your jump distance is doubled for the turn and is determined by your Dexterity rather than your Strength.

Letting Flurry work with Monk Weapons is an early boost to damage (when monks don't need it) and does nothing later (when monks do need it). I'm not a fan of that to be fair.

I kind of liked the idea of making it possible to do Patient Defense as a Reaction to being attacked (so, bonus action or reaction, with the bonus action being better because Dex saves) and the idea of making Flurry of Blows add on to the attack action, instead of the bonus action. So the phrasing would be: "Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to make an additional unarmed strike" Effectively the same number of attacks, but now your bonus action can be spent on 1 attack, or the other options like normal, and flurry can stack with those for more Ki.

3rd Level: Deflection and Redirection
You gain two new Martial Disciplines.
Deflect Missiles. When you are the target of a ranged attack, as a Reaction you may spend 1 Discipline Point to attempt to deflect it. When you do so, make an attack roll as if you were making an Unarmed Strike. If your attack roll exceeds the attack roll against you, you take no damage from the attack.
When you use this Martial Discipline, you may protect yourself from a number of ranged attacks equal to your Wisdom modifier until the beginning of your next turn. If you are attacked by a greater number of ranged attacks, you may spend additional Discipline Points to continue protecting yourself without needing to spend an additional Reaction.
You may not use this Martial Discipline to protect yourself from missiles that are too large for you to make an attack with yourself. (For example, a Halfling Monk is not large enough to make an attack with a boulder thrown by a giant and would not be able to use this feature against that attack.)
Redirect Missiles. After using Deflect Missiles, you may choose to redirect the ranged attack against a creature within 60 feet of yourself that isn’t behind Total Cover. If the attack roll you made with Deflect Missiles would hit that creature, it takes damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die plus your Dexterity modifier. The damage is the same type dealt by the original ranged attack.
You may not use this Martial Discipline to redirect ranged attacks from spells.

Spoiler: Aside

I am aware this is a huge buff for the original feature, Deflect Missiles, but I think the feature needed to be much better to be worthwhile. I also prefer features that make the players more active than the DM, and this version of the feature has the player rolling more rather than the DM, while also decreasing the overall number of die rolls and therefore decreasing some of the time this feature eats up.

Eh, I'm not sure this needs buffed really. It does need the ability to react to more than one attack, but I did that by giving monks more reactions over their levels.

5th Level: Punishing Strikes
When you attack with a Monk Weapon, you score a critical hit on a roll of 19–20.
In addition, when you attempt to Shove a creature, or when a creature attempts to escape your grapple, you may spend 1 Discipline Point to impose disadvantage on the creature’s save.

Spoiler: Aside

I killed Stunning Strike. I don’t think it’s necessary in this version of the Monk. I think applying Weapon Masteries to Unarmed Strikes, calculating Grapple and Shove DCs off of abilities the Monk actually wants, and using Discipline Points to make it harder for creatures to succeed on their saves more than covers the gap, while also making the Monk less of a one-trick pony.

I'm not a fan.

6th Level: Empowered Strikes
Whenever you make an attack with a Monk Weapon, you can deal your choice of Force damage or the attack’s normal damage type.
In addition, you may choose to make attack and damage rolls using Dexterity or Wisdom with Monk Weapons.
Finally, you may Grapple or Shove creatures up to two size categories larger than you

The increased size thing is neat, but why would you make the dex or wisdom here? You are six levels in, you made your decision long ago. Now, I think subclasses doing this is fine, but putting that ability here seems bizarre. It needs to be earlier.

7th Level: Heightened Metabolism
You may spend a Hit Die to meditate to regain Discipline Points. You still may meditate twice before finishing a Long Rest at no cost.

Spoiler: Aside

In my opinion, this is better than getting a whole bunch of Discipline Points, for reasons explained earlier. (Not that any Monk ever actually felt like they had a whole bunch...) The Monk, at this point, really should have all the Discipline Points he needs each encounter, except for on really, really long adventuring days—or weeks.

This might work for some games, but I do a modified recovery where you need to spend HD to recover during a long rest, so that would make them a bit precious for this. Especially since, again, you are maxing at 8 ki,

10th Level: Self-Restoration
Through sheer force of will, you can spend a Bonus Action or 1 Discipline Point to remove one of the following conditions from yourself on your turn: Charmed, Frightened, or Poisoned. You may do this no more than once per turn.
In addition, forgoing food and drink doesn’t give you levels of Exhaustion.

Ah, interesting. I simply said "you may take this action even if you normally cannot take actions" but doing it with Ki is a good idea too.

11th Level: Unending Flurry
The Flurry of Blows discipline no longer costs Discipline Points for you to use.

Interesting. I went with increasing the damage here, and made it free as part of the capstone

15th Level: Perfect Discipline
Whenever you reduce a creature to 0 Hit Points you regain 2 Discipline Points. The creature must be at least CR 1/8 to gain this benefit.

Not sure I like this. Feels a bit vampiric, which would make it more of a subclass ability.

17th Level: Extra Attack
You may attack thrice, instead of once or twice, when you take the Attack action on your turn.

Could have put this at 11th.

Warrior of the Hand
Open Hand Technique’s Topple is redundant in this version of the Monk.
Fleet Step loses some of its oomph with base class changes allowing you to not provoke opportunity attacks from creatures you attack, so it might need a boost—but it is still useful in large crowds, or when you don’t want to spread your flurry of attacks across multiple creatures.

So, my idea.

Lose the 3rd level ability entirely. Instead, make it do this "Whenever you use an unarmed strike to take the shove or grapple option, you may also deal 2 MArtial arts dice in damage if the creature fails the save."

Essentially, they can deal damage AND control with the same attack. Then you can add later an ability where they deal half damage when the enemy successfully saves. And maybe you can even add a new option, or the ability to spend that 1 ki to impose disadvantage.

 

[VenerableBede]

I want monks to be monks from level 1. And I felt like the ability to weave in and out of combat was a good starting identity to build off of. Do you think it is too powerful at level 1?

It might be too powerful in the sense that I was growing concerned that I was giving the Monk too much at level 1—it's hard to judge how many features are too much and how many are just right.

I was also trying to keep in mind multiclassing. Now, I'm personally a fan of multiclassing-friendly features, but providing too many (and too good) features at level 1 runs the risk of making your class an automatic dip for a lot of builds. Is taking 1 level of Monk better than spending an ASI on Mobile? (Assuming that feat survives into OneDnD.) I dunno, but pushing some features into level 2 ups the opportunity cost and reduces the risk of multiclassing shenanigans.

I wonder if the monk even needs them if they can use shove, grapple, and prone with unarmed strikes seamlessly?

Different strokes for different folks and all that. I liked that Weapon Masteries have the potential to give your Unarmed Strikes interesting properties that, unlike grappling and shoving, don't reduce your damage while using (and don't limit you to one subclass if you want interesting properties AND damage, per your Open Hand suggestion). It also gives the Monk more versatility, and I like options.

I'm not sure about this. I have thoughts on regenerating Ki, and making this twice per long rest doesn't effectively change the intent of the design, just makes short rests shorter. So I don't know if maxing at 8 Ki works then, because the balance would still assume the same number of ki needed.

I agree that it needs playtesting to see if this idea is viable. Everything I have done here is all theory.

Martial features are far too limited, especially ones with really restricted use—like Monk Ki. Martial powers tend to be less powerful then spells and more restricted, which... limits fun, fantasy, and flavor. They should be less powerful and usable way more often, or be about balanced in power and use. Personally, I lean toward the opinion that martial powers should be recharged at the beginning of each encounter, and I tried to emulate that here. 8 might not be a good cap, but I figured it was balanced out by the Monk basically being guaranteed a full 8 every encounter—needs tweaking for sure.

Letting Flurry work with Monk Weapons is an early boost to damage (when monks don't need it) and does nothing later (when monks do need it). I'm not a fan of that to be fair.

I kind of liked the idea of making it possible to do Patient Defense as a Reaction to being attacked (so, bonus action or reaction, with the bonus action being better because Dex saves) and the idea of making Flurry of Blows add on to the attack action, instead of the bonus action. So the phrasing would be: "Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to make an additional unarmed strike" Effectively the same number of attacks, but now your bonus action can be spent on 1 attack, or the other options like normal, and flurry can stack with those for more Ki.

I view Monks as strikers and skirmishers, so I leaned into more damage and less defense in this proposal. I think this suggestion accomplishes that, but it is just a theory build. (That said, it changes Monk damage very little since they already get a d6 for their Martial Arts die now anyway, and the few Monk weapons that let them use a d8 only boost DPR by 1 per hit.)

Very interesting. I think your suggested change for Flurry has a lot of potential. Maybe it can be a scaling feature—at higher levels you can spend more Ki for additional punches? Maybe not necessary, but I think the idea is worth exploring.

As for making Patient Defense a Reaction rather than a Bonus Action, it would see more use at my tables if that were the case, while also giving certain Monks decision paralysis about what to do with all of their options for Reactions.

Eh, I'm not sure this needs buffed really. It does need the ability to react to more than one attack, but I did that by giving monks more reactions over their levels.

Of all the changes I made, the change to Deflect/Redirect Missiles is my least favorite. I couldn't find something that threaded the needle quite right. I'm loosely supportive of adding more Reactions to Monks as a high-level feature, but only loosely. 5e tries to keep a tight rein on the action economy.

I'm not a fan.

Fair enough.

The increased size thing is neat, but why would you make the dex or wisdom here? You are six levels in, you made your decision long ago. Now, I think subclasses doing this is fine, but putting that ability here seems bizarre. It needs to be earlier.

In my mind, the addition of letting you use Wisdom rather than Dexterity mostly exists as a ribbon feature, but one that could be very useful to players who begin play about level 6. But again, I think of it as a ribbon with occasional bite.

This might work for some games, but I do a modified recovery where you need to spend HD to recover during a long rest, so that would make them a bit precious for this.

I cannot plan for every possible variant of the rules, just the standard rules, when speaking to a mass audience.

Interesting. I went with increasing the damage here, and made it free as part of the capstone

Originally this was the feature that gave you a third attack with your attack action, but I swapped the two and don't remember why.

Not sure I like this. Feels a bit vampiric, which would make it more of a subclass ability.

I think most of my suggestions past 12th level need lots of tweaking and testing. I've never played with a group that's lasted past 12th level in 5e, and most people I know never have, so as far as I am concerned abilities for 15th level (and all others above 12) mostly exist as food for thought anyway, or campaigns that start at high levels.

Lose the 3rd level ability entirely. Instead, make it do this "Whenever you use an unarmed strike to take the shove or grapple option, you may also deal 2 MArtial arts dice in damage if the creature fails the save."

I think these are pretty good fixes for Open Hand, if the Monk were to move this direction.


I don't have much time to work on class revisions like this, but if I get free time I'm curious to see what I'd come up with if I incorporated some of the ideas from this conversation. Most of all, I really like your suggestion of having Flurry add an attack to your Action, rather than your Bonus Action.