Playtest: Primal Power

[ppaladin123]

I'd actually be more worried if all the players decided to take the feats. A +5 untyped bonus to a variety of checks? Way to mess with the math. I'd have been happier if they'd made them feat bonuses. That way, you can take Improved Initiative to get a +4 bonus to initiative checks, or you and four friends can take Tribe of the Swift Jaguar to get a +5 bonus to initiative checks.

If you add in a paragon tier warlord granting initiative bonuses equal to his Int or Cha modifier....woah, that's a spicy meatball.

 

[FireLance]

Hrm. On first reading, I'm not too terribly worried about the stacking issue. If the group comes to the consensus to all take the tribal feat, that's quite a bit of "sacrifice" on everyone's part, so to speak. The Fighter has to give up Weapon Focus, the Human one of its kick-ass racial feats, etc.

Why not reward a party that wants to cooperate and be crazy good at something? Is having everyone take Tribe of the Swift Jaguar really all that overpowered? Your group is spending FIVE FEATS for a +5 to Initiative bonus. That's a big amount of resources.

The +5 initiative bonus is not a big deal in isolation. After all, they could all have taken Improved Initiative and got a +4 bonus to initiative each. It's the ability to stack the bonuses from Tribe of the Swift Jaguar with the bonus from Improved Initiative or Quick Draw that I think is potentially problematic.

 

[RefinedBean]

The +5 initiative bonus is not a big deal in isolation. After all, they could all have taken Improved Initiative and got a +4 bonus to initiative each. It's the ability to stack the bonuses from Tribe of the Swift Jaguar with the bonus from Improved Initiative or Quick Draw that I think is potentially problematic.

No, what I'm saying is even with all those things taken together, I honestly don't think it's overpowered. A group is making a conscientious decision to focus on Initiative, or whatever skill, or saving throws.

Players should be rewarded both mechanically and flavor-fully (that's not a word, I know) for this kind of thing, and Tribal feats accomplish this.

Of course...now that I read over it again to make sure I don't sound like a total loon, I might make sure that any one character can only have one Tribal tattoo at a time, so the untyped bonuses can't be used solely for min-maxing.

Dang you, playtests. Making me THINK.

 

[Lucias]

Does anyone else feel like Beastmaster Rangers need some love after this?

 

[RefinedBean]

Does anyone else feel like Beastmaster Rangers need some love after this?

How about a feat that gives your Beast the same Tribal tattoo that your ranger uses?

Huh? Huh? That'd be awesome!

Also, has anyone noticed that those Tribal feats benefit everyone, and not just Primal characters? That's pretty cool for a "focused" sourcebook.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I find it interesting that most druid summons don't get opportunity attacks, and can be used without much maintenance on actions if the druid puts it in the right position. Though I feel that some of the instinctive actions could be a little more detrimental to the party, though I know the druid often has to spend a little more to use many of their powers.

 

[Kzach]

I really like the tribal feats. It suits the concept of a 'power source party' really well as well. And relabelling them for other purposes like mercenary companies and whatnot is an awesome idea.

I wish I'd thought of it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Neat. Hard to really fit into the game... I don't even grok the druid fully (with so few levels and no actual play) so it's tougher to figure out how this playtest might go quite yet. Definitely shows us that they've got some cool ideas in store for Primal Power!

They mentioned that "Arcane Power" introduced summoning. Mistake? As far as I understand the Invoker in PHB2 really is the introduction of that. Or perhaps they're simply suggesting that Arcane Power is the first place that summoning is added to an existing class much like they're doing with the druid?

Is it possible that Arcane Power will be released before PHB II? (I've lost track )

 

[Jack99]

The "Instinctive Action" feature is absolutely awesome.

Also, there are a freaking lot of summonable animals. Wow.

I'm less impressed by the Tribal feats. A fair percentage of your group has to be in on them for them to be worthwhile. I love the flavor, but I question the utility to my group. Too disparate.

Ditto

The +5 initiative bonus is not a big deal in isolation. After all, they could all have taken Improved Initiative and got a +4 bonus to initiative each. It's the ability to stack the bonuses from Tribe of the Swift Jaguar with the bonus from Improved Initiative or Quick Draw that I think is potentially problematic.

TBH it's not that bad. My 15th level rogue has +22 to initiative. He has yet not to go first. Meaning, it's easy to get initiative if you want it.

Is it possible that Arcane Power will be released before PHB II? (I've lost track )

Nope. PHB2 in March, Arcane Power in April.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I really like the instinctive action, it definitely allows the "same" rules that are used for all summoned creatures to work differently based on flavor. While the wild summons have default actions that don't cost actions to use, they lack (except for one instance) the opportunity actions that some of the other spoiled creatures have had.

As for the tribal feats:

It would be interesting to see a group organized to max out their bonus to initiative, stealth and perception, with plans to avoid suprise at all costs, and attempt to surprise their foes at any opportunity, perhaps getting not only suprise, but intiative as well.