Please call female deities 'goddesses.'

[The Little Raven]

Maybe they're trying to change common usage? I know D&D is patterned quite a bit after Tolkien who did the same. We still even use his terms: Dwarves and Elven for example. (vs. the correct dwarfs & elfin)

Nitpick: Tolkein uses Elvish, not elven.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Maybe they're trying to change common usage? I know D&D is patterned quite a bit after Tolkien who did the same. We still even use his terms: Dwarves and Elven for example. (vs. the correct dwarfs & elfin)

The big difference is that Tolkien was using terms for his own creations, so he was free to call them what he wanted. It is the same as the makers of Wild Arms using the term Elw rather than elf, or the maker of the webcomic Erfworld using the term gobwyn rather than goblin. WotC is not using a word in a unique or specific manner like that, so they have less flexibility.

The other big difference is that, prior to Tolkien, the very ideas of Dwarves and Elves were not very common, let alone the exact word usage. Keep in mind that the usage of those words has not changed at all since Tolkien popularized them. Meanwhile, the terms God and Goddess are very common and have widespread usage, and are used consistently in a specific way. I guess you can say their current usage has a lot of traction.

If that is what WotC is trying to do, I doubt it will be successful in the least.

 

[Dykstrav]

I've never met Whoopi Goldberg either....

“Ever since I was a little kid, I wanted this. As a kid, I lived in the projects and you're the people that made me want to be an actor. I'm proud to be an actor and I'm gonna keep on acting.” Whoopi Goldberg

IIRC, Halle Barry in her acceptance of her Screen Actors Guild Award stated that she was proud to be an Actor. (there is no Screen Actresses Guild).

I've never met Whoopi Goldberg either. But I have met several actresses. I got my start in the film business in the art department, but I'm mostly doing script supervision now. The official term in most union memberships is "actor" for both sexes, yes, and it's justified in that it seems that "actress" is an unusual case for English. The commonly circulated tale is that because only males were allowed to act in certain times, but I don't think the term's origin has any impact on whether or not use should continue. I've never asked about it, but all the female performers that I've met have introduced themselves as actresses. But this is a bit off-topic...

On set, the preferred term for any performer is actually "talent," not only to avoid gender issues but also because a particular performer might not want to be identified as an actor for whatever reason. In the same spirit, I think that "deity" is an acceptable gender-neutral term.

 

[DamnedChoir]

I think a thread that ends up being an argument between Neofeminists and Grammar Nazis is sort of pointless.

 

[Orius]

The term goddess doesn't bother me. To me, "goddess" implies she's hot, and there's nothing wrong with that. To be sure, mythology does have its share of crone goddesses (Hel, Hecate, etc.), but that won't be the case with elves. First off, all the D&D elf goddesses have always been hot, even Lolth. Second they're ELVES. Would D&D ever have an ugly elf? I don't think so.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Boo, god of warhamsters.

Awww...lookit, guys, it's a cute little hamster dressed in spikey plate armor! It thinks it's people! Does it want a treat? Does it? Does it want a little -AAAAARGH MY ARM!

Gorehandle, god of wardoors.

Holy symbol is a golden circle with a bloody handprint on it. Clerics favor spiked shields as their weapons. Gives new meaning to the "red carpet." Instead of a welcome mat, it's the severed tongues of your enemies!

Ragecorn, god of warfields.

Y'know, this one actually existed, but he was called Xipe Totec. Priests wore flayed human skin to honor him. Seriously. Aztecs were freakin' METAL.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

So, I was just reading through the elf racial entry in the new Ampersand column, and I noticed that female deities are repeatedly referred to as 'gods.' "The god Sehanine," for example. Now, I realize that in one sense the word 'god' can refer to a deity of any gender, but, for clarity's sake, perhaps it would be better to call the female ones 'goddesses'? Calling all deities 'gods' regardless of gender might be confusing to new players who aren't already familiar with the various deities and their respective genders. In fact it could potentially lead to a great deal of confusion and... silliness.

So, my recommendation to the editors of the 4E books would be to go through and make sure that female deities are referred to as 'goddesses.' Replace "Sehanine, god of the moon" with "Sehanine, goddess of the moon." It sounds more natural and makes more sense.

I totally agree. A 'god' is a man and a 'goddess' is a woman; a 'sorcerer' is a man and a 'sorcereress' is a woman...oh sorry, I'm being accurate and poetic again--two things that we never want to be with d&d.

Seriously I don't see why people are so resistant to using traditional words in the game; I don't see anyone arguing that a curved sword should be spelled 'simitar' or that pointy pieces of metal in general should be spelled 'sord' which would be the progressive and 'logical' thing to do. Calling Demeter a goddess doesn't infer some kind of sexism, but calling her a god is confusing for a lot of people. And no it's not as simple as 'just correct them' because first impressions are the most important, and we already know how easy it is for players to remember all the fun details of their DMs' deities. *rolls eyes* I'd rather call Shar a goddess than have to repeatedly tell my players that she is in fact female.

And quit with the sarcastic BS about monkesses and palidanesses; we all know which words ye olde English language have gender differentiation so there's no reason to act stupid. I've always used sorceress, wizardess, witch and suchlike because they add verisimilitude to my worlds, but apparently that's too much to ask.

 

[Terramotus]

Personally, I don't think this goes far enough, and I can't believe that Wizards would be insensitive enough not to see it. It achieves the goal of pretending there's no gender differences and needlessly politicizing a word that's not at all controversial, but it's STILL not confusing enough.

What's wrong with women that when we pick a neutral term to refer to both genders we have to pick the MALE one? It's just another symptom of the male dominated society that's been indoctrinated so deep culturally that you all use sexist words without even being aware of it! Chauvinist pigs!

The proper response would be to use the words "god" and "goddess" interchangeably to refer to both male and female deities, just as the pronouns "he" and "she" can be alternated to make a sentence gender neutral.

Alternately, as a way of making reparations for millennia of male oppression, the term "goddess" could be used to describe both male and female deities. Perhaps after 5000 years of this a conferance could be held to then determine an appropriate gender neutral term.

 

[Dykstrav]

Calling Demeter a goddess doesn't infer some kind of sexism, but calling her a god is confusing for a lot of people... I'd rather call Shar a goddess than have to repeatedly tell my players that she is in fact female.

This is basically where I'm sitting. I have no interest in defending any sort of elitism, my interest in using the term in entirely one of clarity and flavor.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like any further discussion regarding this issue is going to be productive. This whole thing is starting to remind me of the flame wars circa 2000 about how Courtney Solomon should win some type of humanitarian award for being brave enough to include a black female elf in a "mainstream" fantasy movie.

It doesn't seem like anyone has been able to convince anyone else. I've stated my own preference... Guess it's time to kick back and see how long it takes for this thread to get locked.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Personally, I don't think this goes far enough, and I can't believe that Wizards would be insensitive enough not to see it. It achieves the goal of pretending there's no gender differences and needlessly politicizing a word that's not at all controversial, but it's STILL not confusing enough.

What's wrong with women that when we pick a neutral term to refer to both genders we have to pick the MALE one? It's just another symptom of the male dominated society that's been indoctrinated so deep culturally that you all use sexist words without even being aware of it! Chauvinist pigs!

The proper response would be to use the words "god" and "goddess" interchangeably to refer to both male and female deities, just as the pronouns "he" and "she" can be alternated to make a sentence gender neutral.

Alternately, as a way of making reparations for millennia of male oppression, the term "goddess" could be used to describe both male and female deities. Perhaps after 5000 years of this a conferance could be held to then determine an appropriate gender neutral term.

Wait, what?