Please Give Me Some Ideas for Dealing with a Stupid Player/Character

[Nine Hands]

Hey everyone,

I have an interesting situation in my current Epic game (which takes place in the Forgotten Realms). One of the character's (a member of the Order of the Forgotten Flower, we will call him Dummy from now on), decided to attempt to steal a sword from the treasure trove of a black dragon (members of the party have had dealings with this dragon in the past and the dragon ALWAYS comes out ahead in the deal, but they get what they need at the time). The sword is the Coronal's blade for Comranthyr. Since the entire group is elves (mainly), this item is pretty important to them and thier attempt to reclaim the forests of Cormanthyr. It was mentioned that diplomacy (which the bard/rogue/keeper of songs is really good at), might work since they have had dealings with the dragon before. The attempt to steal the sword failed miserably, with the character being captured (a hit with the clinging breath weapon and then a round or two of non-lethal damage and blam, unconscious elf). The dragon, being smart as all hell, wants to learn as much from this person as possible, so he will be tortured for information. That is where the problem lies. Since he is a member of the Order of the Forgotten Flower, his job is to collect magical artifacts and keep them out of the hands of people who can't handle them. He has also traveled with the group for quite a while and knows all of thier weaknesses.

Several other caveats, the bard/rogue/keeper of songs is also in possession of a magical prison, holding the essence of a long trapped god of entropy. This is a canon item from the Realms called the Staff of the Dragonking, the Eye of Woe, or the Eye of Doom. This item in and of itself is VERY dangerous. If the god were to escape, there would be the potential for the end of the world and stuff.

The group is also attempting to ambush the avatar of Lolth in her own ceremony in Menzoberranzen. This is a ballsy maneuver but if it is planned right, they have a decent chance.

There is a guy in the party (the lover of the bard/rogue/keeper of songs) who is in possession of a rather powerful moonblade. IMC, moonblades are tied directly to the wielder and are needed in close proximity to avoid dying (can't heal, either magically or naturally and eventually takes Con damage each day until dead). Also without the blade, the dude is pretty useless (as it grants him feats, which he has chained off of, and would then not meet the prerequisites for them if the sword is not in his possession).

The party is also planning to kill the avatar of Lolth in an attempt to reclaim the Elven Court. They have enlisted the help of Shevaresh (its a looog story, suffice it to say the a bunch of unrelated, unplanned events came together in a VERY interesting way).

So, dummy (the Order of the Forgotten Flower guy) is going to end up spilling his guts and some time later, he will be deposited on the front lawn of one of the other player's farm, dead and peeled like an onion. Him being missing for a while is not an issue, since they are finishing off a year of down time (which is why one of the character's bought a farm (no pun intended)).

The next thing is what does the dragon do? The last thing he wants is to even think about taking the staff. That is stupid as it is VERY dangerous to those who are not of a specific bloodline. So that idea is out. Thank god, as it would really screw up the campaign a little. Using the weaknesses of the group against them, that is the dragon's style. He may consider kidnapping one and holding him ransom, which will definately cause them problems. The attempt on the avatar of Lolth. That is another thing that is coming up which he may use to his advantage. His choices are many, extort the PCs, tell Lolth for a reward, tell the Drow at the ceremony for a reward.

My question is, can anyone think of anything else to hose these guys? I enjoy being a rat bastard, but outright killing is not my style. I prefer emotional torture over killing any day

 

[MerakSpielman]

The characters burst into the room and with a well-planned ambush, defeat the avatar of Lloth, using up a tremendous amount of their resources. Also in the room is a large black chest radiating strong magic. Opening the chest they discover... the character the dragon captured! Covered with marks of torture, stripped of all equipment, bound with numerous enchantments and physical bindings. He just has time to gasp out "Get out of here! It's a tra-" before the real battle begins....

Enter the dragon and his henchmen, all outfitted specifically to counter your characters most devistating abilities. The resulting fight will, of course, end with the entire party captured by the dragon, who tortures them all to discover who or what it is that they care for most in the entire world. After such important items/people are in the dragon's possession (or are they?) the dragon says, "Well, I'd love to not destroy all that you love, but you're going to have to do a little job for me first..."

Go from there. If the characters do numerous jobs for the dragon, he'll be true to his word and let them go, along with their loved ones/things, but keeping all of their other items. If they don't do what he asks, he will genuinely kill/destory said items/people one at a time. Each destruction could have major campaign-modifying results (it's half the fun. Go with it.), not to mention giving the PCs even more reason to truly hate the dragon villian. Either way, succumb to the demands or not, you (as the DM) have major adventure potential.

 

[Nine Hands]

While I would like to do that, the elf in a chest idea does not fit into my gaming style, funny, just not my style. I like the idea of dummy being there (since he was captured and tortured by Drow only a couple of years ago). The Drow could beat down the group and then drag him forth, gloating evily. I already have plans for major destruction of Faerun, but I need time to build it to a climax. All in all, the Dragon is a bit player in the grand scheme of things.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Now, don't get so caught up in the plot you have planned that you don't allow the stupidity of players to influence the future. As a player, I'd rather have the world end sooner due to my characters (poorly thought out) actions, then have it end when the DM wanted it to, regardless of what my character did.

Of course, that might just be me.

The best way to deal with this situation is to honestly think: What does the dragon want to accomplish? And If I was as smart as the dragon, and had access to the same resources (including prisoners/information), how would I attempt to accomplish my goals with as nasty and foolproof a plan as possible?

You've seen people on this board arguing that a well-prepared dragon in its lair should be unbeatable. Now a dreadfully intelligent dragon has intimate knowledge of every strength and weakness of every member of the party. Does this dragon want the party dead? If so, you should play the dragon as honestly trying to kill the party, using all of the information and resources at its disposal.

PCs can usually deal, if not easily, with really bad situations like being surprised by a dragon while they're sleeping. By "deal" I mean "find a way to have at least one person survive."

 

[Nine Hands]

Oh, the Dragon is not really a big deal, its the information that is the big deal, and he will probably sell it on the market to the highest bidder, starting with the priestesses of Lolth. It puts a kink in all of the PCs plans. I have a feeling that someone is going to silence "dummy" once it is revealed what happened.

Considering that the Dragon has not dealt with these people in a decade and does not really care (except for the fact that one of thier "idiots" invaded his territory), I figure he will be willing to extort the elves instead of confronting them directly. Actually his last contact with them ended well considering the deal.

Also, don't get me wrong, players make mistakes. That is not the point, he made multiple mistakes in a row and hosed himself. The problem is that his hosing of himself, hoses the rest of the group too.

 

[BSF]

Oooh! This sounds like so much fun. The dragon just got a _huge_ leg up in the world.

The dragon knows that there is an assault being planned upon an avatar.
The dragon knows that one of the biggest strengths and weaknesses of one of the characters is a moonblade.
The dragon knows that the party has a powerful artifact in their control, one that it probably doesn't want to see anyone else get their hands on.
The dragon knows that the party has a need for the sword.

So, the dragon pulls out all the stops by using all of this to it's advantage. First thing is to get some sort of item into the party's care that will allow for tracking the party. Second thing let's get something that will allow the dragon to neutralize the moonblade, should the need ever come up. Third, how about something that will give the party a bit of an advantage in the battle with the avatar. Maybe a gem that is supposed to be powerful enough to actually trap an avatar. Sure, that seems a bit far-fetched, but why not try?

If the dragon plans correctly, it will be able to seize the gem once the party has used it. After all, they will probably be severely weakened in such a battle and a nice, fresh dragon could waltz onto the scene and pluck it from their hands. Even if it is their cold, dead hands. What kind of power could you wield with a trapped avatar? But, if the plan fails, there will be very little backlash to the dragon, the party will end up sucking that up.

Make this a huge powerplay where the dragon sends the party on a few quests and this time the party actually gets a little more of an even trade. Not enough to make them suspicious, but enough to make them think they are moving up in the world.

Perhaps the dragon has Gauntlets of the Sun. A powerful item that the dragon has little use for, but just so happens to be useful against the drow, and dang near useless against dragons. A foolish adventurer lost them in a badly conceived assault a few centuries ago. The dragon is willing to part with them if the party recovers something for the dragon. If the party actually does some research on it, they might find that if the gauntlets are used by a wielder of a moonblade, then they act as Gauntlets of the Sun and Moon. The gauntlets have a few extra powers. (Maybe strength & dex bonuses to make it just a bit too tasty.) Best of all, the dragon has had plenty of time to tamper with them. On a certain command word (in Draconic) the gauntlets cause the wearer's hands to open. It is hard to use a moonblade if you can't grasp it. Oh, and the dragon can easily scry on them due to familiarity.


Maybe the dragon also has an odd gem in it's hoard. One the party didn't notice before. It might have a carving of a spider in it. Now, on one of the quests, the party happens to find the remains of a bard that had notes about a strange artifact made eons ago by the Elvish Gods. It was designed to imprison Lolth.

Actually, the "notes" were conveniently planted by the dragon's minions before the dragon sent the party on this quest. Oh, and the artifact was not created by any Elvish Gods. Perhaps it was created by Tiamat when the dragon approached her with a cunning plan? But, it hardly matters what the truth is, so long as the party believes it, right?

This is a bit devious, but the party will certainly have it in their power to find the truth, if they look hard enough and deep enough. But, they may just think they are finally getting the best of the dragon and prepping really well for their upcoming ambush. Once they beat Lolth's avatar, they will be jubilant, until the dragon appears and with a word disarms the moonblade, then turns to the character with the gem and kindly asks for it back.

 

[Wee Jas]

nahh.. the dragon shows up after the battle with Lolth..

If the PCs win: He renders the remaining PCs unconcious then take a few choice magic items from the party and all Lloths goodies and drops the tortured but barely alive dummy off. Leaving enough stuff for the PCs to scrape by to come to his lair again for more dealings in the dragons favor.

If the PCs lose: He kills all the NPCs and renders the remaining PCs unconcious then takes a few choice magic items from the party and all Lloths goodies. Drops the tortured but barely alive dummy off. Leaving enough stuff for the PCs to scrape by to come to his lair again for more dealings in the dragons favor.

The party is a cash cow for the dragon so he wants to keep it that way. Let dummy deal with the PCs who lost good stuff for making a dumb mistake. THAT way he learns a lesson.