Please help me modify this prestige class

[zyzzyr]

Hello,

I have a PC in my group which wants to be a special kind of warrior - he is a half-orc barbarian, and wants to have some kind of mystical energy powering him - he is the "chosen one" sort of deal.

He's presented to me the following PrC which he would like, taken from a website which is no longer there.

Some notes:
1) I run a high-powered campaign.
2) This is really the first interest he's shown in giving his character backstory.
3) Arguments about "you shouldn't be ROLL playing", or "sit him down and tell him you have to be fair to other people" absolutely will not help. If you don't wish to help modify this into a high-powered campaign, then please just refrain.

Warriors abound in the savage realms of the Orc Kingdoms. Sometimes elite warriors rise from the hoards and champion their clans on the fields of battle. The Clan Chosen are among the strongest of those warriors. Chosen at manhood for their great size and strength, they are given secret mental training allowing them to focus their energies into great, powerful blows.
Although they are respected by all, the Chosen lead a solitary life. Many Chosen will strike out on their own if their tribe is "absorbed" by a larger group. These adventuring Chosen make deadly foes in combat and NPC Chosen often are special bodyguards for important individuals.
Large barbarian tribes often have small groups of Chosen who lead their forces in wartimes. Groups of a dozen Chosen have been the deciding factor in many battles between clans. Some of the largest tribes may even have whole squads made up of Chosen to fight their battles for them.

Barbarians, Fighters, and Rangers most often become Chosen. Occasionally the other classes will qualify and have the strength to become one of the Chosen warriors. Clerics make particularly deadly Chosen mixing Divine magic with brute force. Bards, Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards seldom become Chosen due to the rigorous physical requirements that are normally beyond them. Monks cannot become Chosen due to the differing mental paths used to attain the two classes abilities. Paladins seldom are Chosen preferring instead to attain status through their own abilities.

Hit Dice: d12

Requirements:
To qualify for the Clan Chosen Prestige Class, characters must fulfill the following requirements:
Strength: Minimum of 18
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Alignment: (Any) Neutral
Race: Half Orc (Any other humanoid can be substituted if their race is primarily barbaric in nature and the DM agrees. Minotaurs for instance make excellent Chosen.)
Feats: Power Attack, Endurance, Weapon Focus (Any melee weapon, normally a two handed weapon.)

Class Skills:
The Clan Chosen's class skills are Craft, Heal, Intimidate, Listen, Profession, Ride, Spot, and Wilderness Lore.

Skill Points at each Level: 2 + Int Modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Clan Chosen Prestige Class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Clan Chosen are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all types of armor, and with shields. Note that armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pockets, and Tumble.
Focused Strike: Through rigorous mental training the Clan Chosen gains the ability to focus their blows into a single devastating melee attack. A character can choose to make a single melee attack against an opponent instead of his normal attacks. Focused blows give the attacker +2 melee and doubles a characters Strength damage on the blow. This ability works with other feats like Power Attack. The bonuses gained by the Focused Strike are stackable with all other bonuses that a character might have to his attacks. Attacks of opportunity and extra attacks gained through feats like Cleave and Great Cleave are not subject to the Focused Strike bonuses. This ability can only be used with weapons that the character has Weapon Focus in. If the character wishes to use multiple weapons with this bonus, he must gain multiple Weapon Focus Feats.
Cure Light Wounds: A Chosen has gained the favor of the spirits of his ancestors. Starting at 1st level, a Chosen can cast the Divine spell Cure Light Wounds upon himself as a Cleric of equal level to his levels in the Prestige Class. This ability is usable once per day for every five levels attained in this class. If the Chosen ever dishonors his clan or shows cowardice in battle, he loses this ability until he rectifies the problem. Sometimes this can lead to grand quests where the Chosen must defeat a powerful (CR +3 of Character Level) opponent singlehandedly.
Defensive Mind: Beginning at Level 2, a Clan Chosen gains an intuitive sense of the flow of combat. As such, he gains a +1 bonus to his Armor Class when in melee combat. This miscellaneous defense bonus stacks will all other armor bonuses gained through Dexterity, Armor worn, Feats, or any other. At 4th Level this bonus goes to +2. At 6th Level this bonus becomes +3. At 8th Level this bonus goes to +4. At 10th Level this bonus attains the maximum of +5.

BAB advancement: as fighter
Saving throw advancement: as Bnn

1 Focused Strike; Cure Light Wounds 1/day
2 Defensive Mind +1
3 Bonus Feat
4 Defensive Mind +2
5 Bonus Feat; Cure Light Wounds 2/day
6 Defensive Mind +3
7 Bonus Feat
8 Defensive Mind +4
9 Bonus Feat
10 Defensive Mind +5; Cure Light Wounds 3/day

If a Chosen no longer has the minimum requirements for the class, he loses the Focused Strike and Defensive Mind abilities but retain all other abilities gained by the class.

My opinion:
a) don't like str requirement - maybe a quest-based requirement instead.
b) Focused strike is unpalatable. All hits are then double str bonus - with double handed weapon this becomes x3 - basically a crit every hit. Also, it uses Str bonus which is not good, and it tries to avoid anything it might stack with.
c) defensive mind is similarly unpalatable.
d) advancement of will save is non-typical
e) AND bonus feats? this is like a super-juiced fighter.

Basically, I'd like to try to keep this in line with the new 3.5 barbarian.

So my amendments would be:

a) focused strike: 1/day, get a bonus equal to double barbarian + cc levels, for 1 round - usable any time.
OR
a) focused strike: 1/day to 5/day: double str bonus for 1 hit.
b) defensive mind replaced with damage reduction, which goes from 1/- to 4/- over all 10 levels.
c) more cure light wounds - 1/day to 5/day overall, and self only
d) less bonus feats.

so

1 FS 1/day, CL 1/day
2 DR 1/-
3 CL 2/day
4 Feat
5 DR 2/-
6 CL 3/day
7 Feat
8 DR 3/-
9 CL 4/day
10 Feat, DR 4/-

OR

1 FS 1/day, CL 1/day
2 DR 1/-
3 FS 2/day, feat
4 DR 2/-, CL 2/day
5 FS 3/day
6 DR 2/-. feat
7 FS 4/day, CL 3/day
8 DR 3/-
9 FS 5/day, feat
10 DR 4/-, CL 4/day.

Any thoughts on how to best fit this in? I am ok with DR, CL, and even the feats to a lesser extent - but what the heck do I do about this "focused strike" - keeping mind that I want to keep it in some form? I am against making it "every swing" unless a good way to make this work is given ... (mind you, I am also changing the name to "primal fury")

To give you an idea of other boost-ups: dwarf fighter gets free stat boosts every now and then (permanent) - e.g. next step is +2 str, +2 con, +10 hp, druid can spontaneously cast cure spells, elf sorcerer is morphing into a dragon.

Any ideas? Really, I am open to any ideas at all.

 

[Zack2216]

I think that Focused strike should be like Power critical from Masters of the wild. The character declares that he is using the ability, makes the attack, and if he hits, its a threat. But because the character can use this ability multiple times per day, make it so he only gets one strike in the same round he is using that ability.

For CLW, maybe you should limit to the limited fast healing that the forsaker gets. So when he would gain CLW 1/day, give him fast healing 1 for 10 rounds. When he gets CLW 2/day, fast healing 1 for 20 rounds. CLW 3/day, fast healing 2 for 20 rounds. CLW 4/day, fast heal 3 for 20 rounds. CLW 5 per day, fast heal 3 for 30 rounds. This way, he gains healing, and it gets steadily stronger as he levels. You could do fast healing, or an other thing I had in mind was a lay on hands thing, that used strength or constitution as the main score for determining how he can heal per day.

The damage reduction looks good, so long as the character can't start the class till level 7 or so.

The main thing that should be changed is the cure light wounds thing though. The ability doesn't really suit the class, and it isn't strong enough, inside and outside power play.

I hope this helps some

 

[totoro]

If the dwarf fighter gets +2 STR, +2 CON, and +10 hit points every, say, 5 levels, the dwarf fighter is tougher than this Chosen PC. So, I would let the player have it as he wants. That is the way it tends to go in super high power games.

I can't say I particularly like the defensive mind ability, but focus strike is not out of whack since you only get one attack instead of all of your attacks. I would raise the BAB requirement, but it doesn't matter much since the PC is not balanced with (non-boosted) classes.

Since this PC is similar to a berserker, I would rename focus strike to something like "warrior spirit" (I'm sure you can think of a better name) and allow the attack to be made only while raging and also require the character make bestial and scary sounds while using the power. After all, he should be raging (striking a lot), so he needs to occupy his time doing something else, like being scary.

I would also allow the defensive bonus only while the character has the warrior spirit in him (i.e., while the spirit of his ancestors is in him).

Finally, instead of cure light wounds, I would give the PC fast recovery. Perhaps character level + (10 x chosen level) / day. So a 10/10 barbarian/chosen would recover 110 hit points per day (almost 5/hour) instead of 20 (almost 1/hour). You might even let him recover 1 hit point/chosen level/5 rounds raging.

Since I've changed his abilities to work with rage, rather than all the time, the character is a bit weaker so you could throw in a couple of flavor abilities. For example, allow a smite against ancestral foes 1/day (but using the smite forces the chosen to begin raging). Maybe throw in an ability to receive guidance in dreams, but only for actions that the chosen's ancestors would be interested in.

Hope some of this is useful.

 

[zyzzyr]

Hi,

totoro:

You point out something I had missed entirely - that Focused Strike gives up all attacks for that round in exchange for a single, devastating attack. This does make an enormous difference - and in fact I would suggest it might be underpowered - sort of like Dirty Fighting.

re: the dwarf though, if he gets +2 str con, +10 hp at level 5 and 10, then he only has +2 to hit, + 2 damage (though hp go up fast) at level 10.

I think you're both right about Fast Healing vs. Cure Light Wounds - and I will definitely implement that.

I like Zack2216's idea of using FS as Power Critical - in fact I was using that to try to gauge power.

So the problem remains then of the following:

Focused strike I would actually say is UNDERpowered - +2 to hit and +4 to damage in exchange for all the other hits that round?

So how do I make it better? My goal is to make it a single devastating blow

(Bbn + CC level ) * 2 to Str : how often/day, and should it replace all attacks for that round?

So maybe I could have FS (1+level)/2 times per day - 5 at Bbn5/CC10 - and have it replace all attacks for that round?

Should it be less/day? And instead be able to use it as a single melee attack, instead of replacing a full attack action?

 

[totoro]

Focus strike is at least as powerful as a feat. Adding damage to a single strike is sometimes better than making multiple strikes. There will be a place for it. Some examples of when: target has damage reduction, target has an excellent AC (so the second attack at -5 has no chance or low chance of hitting), you are using power attack (making the target harder to hit), massive damage rules are in effect, ...

re: the dwarf +4 STR and +4 CON as non-inherent bonuses would take a fighter 8 *epic* feats to achieve. That doesn't even include the +40 hit points, so let's call if 10 epic feats in 10 levels. Compared to the chosen, the +5 defensive mind is the equivalent of 5 epic feats, the focused strike and bonus feats are comparable to the fighter's bonus feats, and the chosen gets an average of +10 hit points in 10 levels (d12 instead of d10) and a little bit of healing. So, the way I see it, the dwarf fighter is up about 4 epic feats.

Focused strike is definitely not underpowered compared to normal feats. A +2 to a single attack in exchange for losing all additional attacks is probably the power of a normal feat. You also get to double STR damage, which, at 20th level, might be on the order of +14 (with enhancements, inherent bonus, rage, etc.) or +21 with a 2-handed weapon. Throw in a power attack, a keen axe, and improved crit and this feat works just fine. This also works exceptionally well in conjunction with the sunder feat if you want to fight an unarmed opponent or get rid of a pesky shield. Not many weapons could stand a single focused sunder.

Nevertheless, if you wanted to make focus strike better, your suggestion works well enough. Your modification gives you +2 attack and +20 (+30 w/ 2-hand weapon) damage at 20th level. That's almost comparable to the paladin smite ability, though a bit more versatile. Make it at will, since the classes are overpowered in your game anyway, and I think the abilities are close enough to comparable with those of the dwarf fighter.

I still think you should add flavor, though. Something that connects the chosen to his ancestors through his berserking (or in his dreams).

 

[zyzzyr]

re: focused strike ...

well, my plan was actually +level*2 str for one action - which would mean on one attack at level 15: +15 to attack, +15 to damage. However, it would only be 1/day. More powerful than +2 att/+20 dam, but useable only once/day. You're right, and thanks for the pointer because I hadn't thought of it this way, it's really a "smite" power.

Yes FS is not underpwoered compared to a typical feat. I meant that if you replace FS with another bonus feat instead, then basically you just get fast healing, DR, and a few feats. The class as written would actually get less than that - bonus to AC and a few cure spells.

So, to sum it up I think I'm going to keep DR, replace Cure light wounds with Fast Healing, and make Focused Strike a sort of "smite" power.

I am tossing back and forth the following configuration, though.

"smite" replaces a single melee attack, usable only a few times/day.

OR

"smite" is an attack action (replaces a full attack action), usable at will

OR

"smite" is an attack action (replaces a full attack action), usable only a few times/day

The last is definitely the weakest.

Note that even though I am calling it "smite", it would also be usable outside of combat - to break down a door, or use in conjunction with a skill, e.g.

so really it's a "feat of strength".

This versatility (and the fact that it would be +15 att/+15 dam!) made me want to make it only 1/day - perhaps as an attack action.

Thoughts?

 

[totoro]

If you can use the ability outside of combat, it starts to sound like the clerical strength domain granted power (+1/level to STR for 1 round as a free action).

One problem with this is at 1st level chosen (at least a 6th level character), a +1 enhancement bonus can be pretty lame. This can be fixed by allowing barbarian levels to stack for the purposes of increasing the STR bonus, which goes especially well if the power is only usable while raging. Maybe you should allow the chosen to use this power only while enraged. (Note: levels of cleric w/ strength domain should stack, too).

Edit: BTW, you are suggesting increasing STR by 2 * levels, which is more powerful than the clerical STR domain. Since you are in an over-powered campaign, that works, too, but I would just make the ability last longer (maybe for the duration of the rage 1/day). You can still stack clerical levels.

 

[the Jester]

Hmmm... a few issues I have with this prc, as written, are~

Prerequisites: Even if you are gonna keep str as a prereq, it should be an odd number. Also, as it stands, a half-orc or orc could qualify quite easily with just one level of fighter by 3rd level. I'd pop this up to about a +6 and require the Weapon Focus to be in a two-handed weapon.

Focused Strike: While trading a full attack for extra damage might seem fair, keep in mind that this ability starts off extremely good (since the +3 BAB means you only start with one attack anyway) and only gets better if you choose the right tactics. F'rinstance, Focused Strike + Spring Attack is a horrendous combo that's really easy to achieve. Just something to keep in mind. Also, this will work with a charge. I like your idea of changing it to a smite-like ability.

Defensive Mind: This one really gets me. An unnamed bonus to AC that, from its name and flavor text, seems to be, er, either intelligence or wisdom based- for an orc-blooded barbarian?? I'd make it a typed bonus if you're going to keep it at all- perhaps either a dodge or an insight bonus, but for god's sake give it a type if you're gonna keep it! Changing it to DR isn't a bad idea, but I strongly recommend you increase the prereqs if you're going to give it out at low levels; you don't want to overshadow the barbarian, and this class comes pretty close already.

The Bonus Feats: So why exactly would anyone take a fighter after this class rears its head? The only thing they would stand to gain is a smaller hit die, and maybe specialization. Yuck- I think bonus feats in a prestige class are a sign of lazy design.

Cure Light Wounds: Changing this to fast healing is, again, a pretty good idea; the only catch is that, with forsaker-style limited amount/duration FH there's a lot of extra bookkeeping that the player will have to do, and if they aren't on top of it (or aren't fully honest) there's a lot of potential for abuse. Maybe make it so that, 1/day, the chosen can heal himself of 1d6/class level hp? That lets it increase with his level without making it too versatile, too powerful or too much hassle to track.

A caveat: from the sounds of things, your campaign is pretty high-powered. I approached this prc from the perspective of 'standard' dnd, so you prolly have more leeway in your game than I gave it. Still, I think this prc (as originally written) gives way too much for almost no cost. Really, the only 'cost' is Endurance- everything else is an optimal choice. And they get the best stuff that a fighter gets (feats), the best HD in the game (d12), and lots of other goodies. If you want a high hp, cure-spell-casting, d12-HD, best-skill-using (Spot, Listen and Heal!) character, do a little creative multiclassing.