Please help with shapeshift

[Vahktang]

The ninth level spell.
It says 'any non unique creature'.
But isn't every creature unique with a history and desires of it's own?
No?
Forget about it, it's D & D?
OK

So, the question came up for templates.
I think we can all agree that one cannot shapeshift into, say, a cleric, or a hill giant/barbarian.
Levels are not allowed.
And skills and feats don't go with the shift, too, right?
How about a template?
They're kind of like levels.
Can one shapeshift into a ghost, vampire, or half fiend?

Thanks.

More later,

Vahktang

 

[kenobi65]

But isn't every creature unique with a history and desires of it's own?
No?
Forget about it, it's D & D?

Well, yes, a particular displacer beast is a unique creature...but there's a lot of displacer beasts, and, statistically, they're the same. "Non-unique", in this case, refers to creatures that there's more than one of. So, you can't shapechange into Orcus, for example, because there's only one of him, but you can shapechange into a balor demon.

 

[Vorput]

And skills and feats don't go with the shift, too, right?
How about a template?
They're kind of like levels.
Can one shapeshift into a ghost, vampire, or half fiend?

I believe you gain any bonus racial feats, or racial skill bonuses just as the creature you change into.

I think as per RAW, the various templates would be acceptable... ultimatly it's a DM's call- polymorph opens up a lot of abuses... but for the most part, I feel within the power of what high level wizards/sorcerers should be able to do. Just make sure you do your gen work ahead of time to save on headaches during the session.

Edit: Thinking on it some more, this will definetly require a DM's call... else you could very easily become a half-fiend, vampiric, lycanthrope radioactive half golem red dragon... etc. Maybe limit it to one template or something.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Sepulchrave II rules that every +1 CR a template adds is the equivalent of +2 HD for the purpose of summoning limits.

You could easily adopt a similar rule for shapechange.

Make them do a few hours "research" prior to adopting a really weird form so you can add an ad hoc increase in CR to some abusive combo or underpriced template.

 

[Kieperr]

I don't believe you can use the spell to change into a creature with a template. Shapechange states that it functions like Polymorph and Polymorph states that it functions like Alter Self. Alter Self states that you cannot take the form of a creature that has a template. There is nothing in the Polymorph or Shapechange spell descriptions that changes this stipulation. The spells could be used on or by a creature with a template but they cannot be used to change into a creature with a template. So no ghosts, vampires, or halffiends.